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Pakistani F-16 "Engaged" One Of The MH-47G Chinooks Three Times During Bin Laden Raid

El Sidd

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No pictures, no party.

I think the whole thing was staged alongside the pindi boys as an election stunt.
You can pay 500000PKR. You are a rich Brit.

5 guys who liked your post. 100k PKR from each of them.

Economy first. Territorial integrity later?
 

Sifar zero

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Once I found 300 trillion dollars on the street, but then a pigeon came and took it all away, so now I'm poor again. That's what this killing sounds like.
 

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JOSEPH TREVITHICK View Joseph Trevithick's Articles
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The flight lead during the raid that led to the death of Osama Bin Laden, who was piloting one of the MH-47G Chinooks employed in that operation, says that a Pakistani F-16 Viper fighter jet "engaged" his helicopter three separate times as he flew toward Afghanistan during the exfiltration phase of the mission. The now-retired U.S. Army officer also says he was involved personally in two attempts during the Obama Administration to capture Iranian General Qasem Soleimani in Iraq. The Trump Administration decided to kill Soleimani, who had been head of Iran's Quds Force, in a drone strike in Baghdad in January.
Retired U.S. Army Chief Warrant Officer 5 Douglas Englen offered these and other previously unreported details about operations from throughout his career with the elite 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, also known as the Night Stalkers, in an exclusive interview with journalist and documentarian Alex Quade for Military Times, which is worth reading in its entirety. He only decided to share his personal memories after prompting from former Director of the Central Intelligence Agency Leon Panetta and retired U.S. Navy Admiral William McRaven, both of whom were heavily involved in the planning execution of the raid on Bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan in 2011, according to Quade.





"I’m telling it to you," Englen told Military Times. "There’s never been an accurate air piece conveyed on what happened that night."

Many of the basics of the operation are well established at this point. Famously, two heavily modified stealthy Black Hawk helicopters were first to arrive at the compound and inserted the main raiding force. One of these helicopters subsequently crashed after experiencing a condition known as vortex ring state. Englen says the ambient temperature was hotter than expected, which can also impact a helicopter's available lift, and the stealth Black Hawk had more fuel and personnel on board than initially planned, all contributing to the accident.


It has also been widely reported that the use of the helicopters was controversial among the personnel involved in planning the operation and that McRaven, then head of Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC), had been particularly keen to employ them. There are indications that the stealth Black Hawks had been key to securing the final approval from President Barak Obama to launch the risky raid inside the territory of an ostensibly friendly nation.
It's not clear where Englen fell on that debate. He makes clear in his interview that he was among those who advocated for letting the stealthy helicopters penetrate into Pakistan first, rather than sending in the two MH-47G Chinooks, including the one that he would be flying, first to establish a temporary Forward Arming Refueling Point (FARP) and be in position in case something went wrong.
So, when the Black Hawk crashed at the Abbottabad compound, Englen and the rest of the backup force in the Chinooks were still in the process of setting up the FARP at a site 30 miles to the north. He immediately got a quick reaction force into his MH-47G and set off to assist the main raiding party, while the other Chinook stayed behind to ensure that fuel would be waiting for the remaining force before it returned to Afghanistan.
“We just went into contingency mode,” Englen explained. "Didn’t know the severity – if it was crashed with casualties? If it crashed in civilian area? All we do is minimize our time and get there as quick as possible."


RESOLUTE SUPPORT MISSION
One of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment's MH-47s prepares to land and pick up US and Afghan personnel during an operation in Afghanistan in 2018.
Englen says that infiltrating into Pakistan in the first place had been relatively easy and, while he said that it was clear from lights coming on in buildings down below that they were waking average citizens up, there did not appear to be any major response from the country's authorities. "Once we crashed the aircraft [the stealth helicopter], within the first 30 seconds of the mission, then that’s when we really woke up that entire valley," he said.
Special operators attempted to destroy the helicopter with explosives, which only drew further attention. Englen says that he was arriving right when the controlled demolition occurred and almost got caught in the blast.
“I was probably 100 feet from the aircraft when it blew up. It pushed our aircraft to the side," he said. "I had to actually fly away, make a tight circle and come back in, and land under the mushroom cloud. I landed to the east of the compound, right next to it. I mean like, right next to it."
As is well known, portions of the helicopter remained intact enough for recovery. Pictures emerged soon after the raid showing the tail section of the top-secret helicopter in particular detail.


PUBLIC DOMAIN
The tail of the crashed stealth Black Hawk hangs over the wall of Bin Laden's compound in Pakistan following the raid.
After loading up Bin Laden's body and other items of potential intelligence value from the compound, the raiding force began to make its way back to Afghanistan. Englen does not say exactly when during the exfiltration it occurred or where, but he says that one of Pakistan's American-made F-16 Viper fighter jets was clearly hunting for the remaining helicopters and attempted to "engage" his MH-47G at least three times.
“It was as an electronic fight. A missile never left the rail. So I was able to evade him electronically. That’s all I’ll say," he said. "But, he was searching and hunting for me, and three times came very close to actually launching a missile."
Englen does not say what type of electronic warfare systems he employed to evade the fighter jet. It is known that the MH-47G has some form of radio-frequency countermeasures system, in addition to infrared and laser missile warning receivers. Quade also says that the 160th's Chinooks had just received new electronic warfare equipment before the raid and that Englen had helped certify those systems and training crews to use them. The Night Stalkers Chinooks are without a doubt the most heavily modified and best-protected versions of that helicopter anywhere in the world.


USAF VIA CHINOOK-HELICOPTER.COM
An older Army MH-47E Chinook special operations helicopter undergoing testing in an anechoic chamber. These chambers deaden ambient electromagnetic radiation so that engineers can test the interactionsbetween the electronic suites, including electronic warfare suites, on aircraft and helicopters.
The retired Chief Warrant Officer also says that he employed evasive maneuvers and a very low-level nap-of-the-earth flight profile to help get away from the F-16. "We pulled every technique and tactic out of the book. And it worked," he said.
“Now, in retrospect, we could have done it with two Chinooks, the entirety," Englen added. "And more than likely – I don’t want to ever second-guess anybody – but in this condition, we would not have crashed, because we [the Chinooks] have the lift."
However, his experience with the F-16 raises questions about whether using only non-stealthy MH-47Gs would have created unacceptable risks. It has long been understood that there was a real danger that, if any of the raiding helicopters were detected, that the Pakistani Air Force, which is on a perpetually high state of alert in case of attacks from India, might have tried to shoot it down.


USAF
A Pakistani Air Force Block 52 F-16D Viper fighter jet.
This interview would only seem to confirm that this was very much the case and came closer to actually happening than has been previously known. At the same time, it also appears to indicate that the Pakistani Air Force did not swing into action until the crash at the compound, suggesting that the country's air defense radars did not pick up any of the helicopters, regardless of their stealth features, during the initial inflitration.
Interestingly Englen does say that this was not the first time during his career with the 160th that hostile combat jets threatened his helicopter, but he did not provide any further details about any other similar incidents. There are reports that three years later, U.S. special operators again rode in stealth Black Hawksduring a raid into Syria, though primarily due to concerns about ground-based air defenses, rather than hostile combat aircraft.
The very real vulnerability of conventional helicopters, as well as non-stealthy tilt-rotors and fixed-wing transport aircraft, to more advanced air defense networks has prompted work on stealthy helicopters and transport aircraft for decades now. The War Zone has explored many years worth of relevant programs extensively in the past.
Beyond these and other interesting details about the Bin Laden Raid, Englen also says that he directly took part in two attempts to capture Iranian General Qasem Soleimani in Iraq, once in 2013 and again in 2016. These are significant revelations given the ongoing debate around the Trump Administration's controversial decision to kill Solemani outside Baghdad International Airport in January and its legal justification for doing so. For years, Solemani ran Iran's Quds Force, which conducts various covert overseas operations overseas and provides different levels of support to various proxy forces throughout the Middle East and beyond.





Now-retired U.S. Army General Stanley McChrystal has said that he declined an opportunity to kill the Iranian officer in Iraq in 2007. McChrystal was head of JSOC at the time. The following year, President George W. Bush reportedly shot down a joint proposal from the CIA and Israel's Mossad to assassinate Soleimani in Syria.
That President Barack Obama was willing to try to capture Solemani is certainly an interesting addition to the discussion and it's not clear what the justification would have been for doing so. In 2011, the Obama Administration had sanctioned the Iranian officer over a Quds Force plot to kill the Saudi Arabian Ambassador to the United States in Washington, D.C.
"It wasn’t ‘capture or kill,’ so if we couldn’t guarantee a capture, then we couldn’t take it to the next level," Englen said in his interview with Military Times. "But we were minutes behind him and his vehicles in Iraq, and we could’ve gotten him. But our rules of engagement was, 'capture only.'"
As already noted, the first to Englen's interview with Military Times is well worth reading in full. Englen was involved in some of the earliest U.S. military operations in Afghanistan after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, including the mission to save Hamid Karzai, who later became president of the country, from getting captured by the Taliban. He also took part in the opening phases of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.
With 34 deployments under his belt in total, equalling six years and nine months of total time spent in combat, including 2,500 sorties just in Iraq and Afghanistan, he has certainly seen and done a lot. Over the course of his career, 90 percent of the missions he flew were in support of so-call Tier One special operations forces, a term for the most elite and secretive units, such as the Navy's SEAL Team 6 and the Army's Delta Force.
Quade says that this may be both the first and last time Englen shares this level of detail about his experiences. Still, he is due to get inducted into the Army Aviation Hall of Fame in April, at which time we may learn even more about his years as one of the Army's most elite aviators.
Contact the author: joe@thedrive.com
Every member of that op, when retires, writes a book or gives an interview and comes up with some never-shared-before-stories to sell themselves.
 

Mav3rick

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seems a lot of BS....

it wasn't even a raid... just a pick up assignment with understanding from General Kiyani...

they are just trying make a mountain out of a mole hill.
The need to keep these stories alive and will continue to 'release' versions of their stories every so often.
 

Windjammer

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Ironically, Sadam Hussain, who wasn't even Americas enemy, his capture, humiliating treatment by American medics to see if he was carrying any Martian bacteria and subsequent trip to gallows and the taunting were all filmed and shown with all the glory yet, Americas most wanted is allegedly found, killed and his body disposed of like an unknown soldier.
The least the Americans could have done to make the claim authentic was to show OBL's body before burying it in the Sea.....point also worth noting is that no Sea hits Afghanistan.....so are we lead to believe that the body was first taken into Afghanistan and then flown out to some part of the Ocean.....and even when the body reached Afghanistan, no one thought of capturing the moment on film. Is the whole episode pretty thin or just damn invisible.
 

Metal 0-1

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Either way a big fuk up of establishment and intelligence agencies.

If you allowed yanks to kill OBL in a raid never had let them throwing Pakistan under bus.

If you wanted OBL killed yiu should have captured/kill him and than handed over to USA in return for something big.
And yeah for the raid deniers a Top Secret US Black Hawk wreck didn't teleported itself in Pakistan
 

PakFactor

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They were here on our invitation, and what followed may only be described as a result of sheer incompetence and stupidity from our top leadership. Obama told the world part of a story that what was meant to be kept quiet, and our guys were caught with their pants down and with no back up plan.
1st of all to allow such a plan to be carried out from infancy is the height of stupidity of Pindi Boys; they can sugar coat this a 100 different ways but the dirty wouldn't be rubbed of. Besides, even having a back up plan aka. story. How you going to set up your nation in a vulnerable position to show he's in your country anyways and that to next to Pakistan Military Academy.
 

Irfan Baloch

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those who have visited Abbotabad know its a transit town linking 2 provinces and tribal areas. academy is a big land mark in there which has no say who lives and goes there.

mullah Omar lived all his life next to an American base in Afghanistan and never discovered.

in OBL case it was incompetence for sure and lack of trust which was justified
his funeral prayers were offered by people across the country.
 

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Killed Saddam's sons and paraded them around the streets. Killed OBL but buried him at sea asap without showing anyone the body as they didn't want him to become a martyr and did so in accordance with some Islamic tradition that virtually none of the Islamic world has even heard of. And then a helicopter filled with Seal Team 6 members crashing and killing everyone literally a few days alter. Totally believable :undecided:
 
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IceCold

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Obama won at the expense of Pakistan, plain and simple while other characters involved in this treachery Gen Kyani, Hussain Haqqani and PPP government made a lot of money all the while Pakistan became the whipping boy of the West while ignorant awaam never came out of their Atta, Cheeni and Ghee dilemma to date.
 

PradoTLC

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F-16s never engaged anything. they were not even scrambled. the Chinook went to Terbela first to a Pakistani base and then flew off to Afghanistan.
this Chinook was omitted from mention in initial stories and people were fed BS that the crew of 2 Black hawk helicopters along with a dead body and cache of information was accommodated in the remaining black hawk helicopter;.

once the black hawk had crashed, the operation as no longer secret. According to a Pak military officer I spoke back then, a Pakistani Huey escorted the team to Terbela where the Chinook arrived and took them away. until late there was never a mention of Chinook so I didnt accept his story thinking he was just covering the embarrassment that Americans sneaked into Pakistan without knowledge or permission.

I find it surprising that Obama felt more sensitive towards showing the dead OBL but was fine killing OBL. throwing the corpse in the sea also defies any logic.

Pakistan suffered extreme level of terrorism right after the operation for over a year who suddenly armed and supported TTP remains mysterious. the cache of arms recovered from TTP bases could equip battalions and garrisons.it has never been revealed how the TTP got hols of such high end military equipment at such large scale.

correct.

My "uncle" was the ADC monitoring the entire epiosode at that the time of raid , and frankly those "stealth" helos were not really stealthily . Our $900M Rathyeon radar system tracked them just fine. According to him he was asked to stand down. So yes COAS was knew about the operation, not sure any one else.

As far as arming the TTP goes , yes CIA was behind them 100%. There is no way a half brained terror village idiot group would have access to knowledge such as the precise info on our AWAC location or carry equipment that jams our gunship's targeting systems.

People fail to ask the most basic of question, like why did after the OBL "raid" did USA transfer Pakistan $3.3B , F-16s, low level radars etc Why did not US "skin" Pakistan alive if it really was hiding OBL?...

The problem is people are brain washed with US propaganda and the western world is Pakistan's enemy. Hence, such lies are easily believed even if they lack the most basic of common sense.
 
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PradoTLC

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Every member of that op, when retires, writes a book or gives an interview and comes up with some never-shared-before-stories to sell themselves.

yes more re hash of non sense for a people easily fooled... just like in Iraq's WMD program


 

CHI RULES

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F-16s never engaged anything. they were not even scrambled. the Chinook went to Terbela first to a Pakistani base and then flew off to Afghanistan.
this Chinook was omitted from mention in initial stories and people were fed BS that the crew of 2 Black hawk helicopters along with a dead body and cache of information was accommodated in the remaining black hawk helicopter;.

once the black hawk had crashed, the operation as no longer secret. According to a Pak military officer I spoke back then, a Pakistani Huey escorted the team to Terbela where the Chinook arrived and took them away. until late there was never a mention of Chinook so I didnt accept his story thinking he was just covering the embarrassment that Americans sneaked into Pakistan without knowledge or permission.

I find it surprising that Obama felt more sensitive towards showing the dead OBL but was fine killing OBL. throwing the corpse in the sea also defies any logic.

Pakistan suffered extreme level of terrorism right after the operation for over a year who suddenly armed and supported TTP remains mysterious. the cache of arms recovered from TTP bases could equip battalions and garrisons.it has never been revealed how the TTP got hols of such high end military equipment at such large scale.
Sir as per rumors some of our close friends were supporting Afghan Taliban so eventually TTP also got there share, many know clearly the origins of ammo used by TTP.

The OBL drama is not worthy enough to be repeated again and again.
 

Blacklight

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