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JamD

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If they're promoting it for export, then they've likely capped the range at 300 km to honour the MTCR. The domestic-use version could exceed that if they're using SATCOM. @JamD @Bilal.
Good point. I wonder what the design changes were then. I think it's not as big as I was expecting it to be. The endurance is quite low (not in the range of 24hrs).
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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Good point. I wonder what the design changes were then. I think it's not as big as I was expecting it to be. The endurance is quite low (not in the range of 24hrs).
I think they made some changes to the fuselage. We all see the area for the SATCOM, but I wonder if they did more work across the whole system (but sticking to the same general design template). So changes can include different aerostructure materials, new internals, etc?

1615225793147.png
 

GriffinsRule

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If they're promoting it for export, then they've likely capped the range at 300 km to honour the MTCR. The domestic-use version could exceed that if they're using SATCOM. @JamD @Bilal.
Are you sure MTCR applies to UAVs? Because Americans and Chinese both have sold drones w long ranges and endurance to many countries already. I don't think it applies.
 

ziaulislam

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"There have been some design changes": I am speculating here that this version does not have the SATCOM (yet) maybe due to delays in the satellite program or mission requirements changing.



No. PAC has nothing to do with AWC programs like Shahpar. PAC's MALE is under Azm and a different program.
PAYLOAD?
 

Bilal.

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Good point. I wonder what the design changes were then. I think it's not as big as I was expecting it to be. The endurance is quite low (not in the range of 24hrs).
If the are able to increase the endurance and develop MAM type PGMs then this can be our equivalent to Turkish TB2/TB3.
 

JamD

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I think they made some changes to the fuselage. We all see the area for the SATCOM, but I wonder if they did more work across the whole system (but sticking to the same general design template). So changes can include different aerostructure materials, new internals, etc?

View attachment 722995
No I think you misunderstood. Shahpar-II is definitely very different from Shahpar-I. What I was quoting was a comment that said that Shahpar-II's design had undergone a change from when it was initially envisioned. This was nothing to do with Shahpar-I
No idea. Perhaps the same as Burraq, the Barq.

If the are able to increase the endurance and develop MAM type PGMs then this can be our equivalent to Turkish TB2/TB3.
Perhaps.
 

Hakikat ve Hikmet

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Now, MAM-L comes with 15km range!!! Imagine what'll happen to the Indian armored/infantry/artillery etc. 15kms off the border if Pak uses this staff in abundance coupled with KORAL-class EW to jam the entire Hindutva?!?? Cold Start!!!!! Cow-dung from my village bull.....

 
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Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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Are you sure MTCR applies to UAVs? Because Americans and Chinese both have sold drones w long ranges and endurance to many countries already. I don't think it applies.
It matters to us because we're trying to make a case to enter bodies like WA, MTCR, etc and get NESCOM et. al off the US sanction list.
 

JamD

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View attachment 694942

Some rough pixel counting shows that AZM MALE's wing is 6.5 m long. So it roughly has a 13.5-14 m wingspan.

For reference:
Falco wingspan: 7.3 m
Burraq wingspan: 8 m (Pakistan's largest public UAV)
Shahpar wingspan: 6.6 m

This 13.5-14 m wingspan puts it in the class of Wing Loong I. Maybe Azm's MALE is just a license production/modification of the Wing Loong I, Who knows?
Assuming PAC's MALE will have roughly the same specs as WL-1 (which is reasonable since UAVs with similar designs usually have similar specs simply due to physics and the basically common ceiling on tech like engines) we can make an important distinction with Shahpar II.
Azm MALEShahpar-II
Endurance20 hrs14 hrs
Ceiling16,000 ft20,000 ft


Using the above stats and assuming some reasonable numbers for wing area and drag coefficient one can safely conclude that Shahpar-II will cruise at a much higher speed than the Azm MALE.

Azm MALEShahpar-II
Max Endurance Cruise Speed75 kts90 kts

Interestingly, the Shahpar-II does "look faster" lol, but in this case I think the numbers back this claim.

More speculation:
The two MALE UCAV's will fulfill slightly different missions. Azm MALE will primarily rely on time-on-station, whereas Shahpar-II will primarily rely quickly reaching the target area but perhaps not having the staying power. That is Shahpar-II is geared more towards strike than Azm MALE. Of course this is all speculation and could be absolutely wrong. Just some educated guessing.

What I can say is that it is good that we have clearly distinct designs/programs that appear to be best for different missions rather than just having a bunch of predator/reaper looking planes basically doing the same thing and being redundant.
 

Bilal.

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Assuming PAC's MALE will have roughly the same specs as WL-1 (which is reasonable since UAVs with similar designs usually have similar specs simply due to physics and the basically common ceiling on tech like engines) we can make an important distinction with Shahpar II.
Azm MALEShahpar-II
Endurance20 hrs14 hrs
Ceiling16,000 ft20,000 ft


Using the above stats and assuming some reasonable numbers for wing area and drag coefficient one can safely conclude that Shahpar-II will cruise at a much higher speed than the Azm MALE.

Azm MALEShahpar-II
Max Endurance Cruise Speed75 kts90 kts

Interestingly, the Shahpar-II does "look faster" lol, but in this case I think the numbers back this claim.

More speculation:
The two MALE UCAV's will fulfill slightly different missions. Azm MALE will primarily rely on time-on-station, whereas Shahpar-II will primarily rely quickly reaching the target area but perhaps not having the staying power. That is Shahpar-II is geared more towards strike than Azm MALE. Of course this is all speculation and could be absolutely wrong. Just some educated guessing.

What I can say is that it is good that we have clearly distinct designs/programs that appear to be best for different missions rather than just having a bunch of predator/reaper looking planes basically doing the same thing and being redundant.
Still, I have always noticed that our UAVs lack endurance compared to similar offerings from other countries. We probably even use same power plants but still.
 

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