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Pakistan - Turkey (PAC-TAI) Collaboration for NGFA-TFX 5th Gen Aircraft l Updates, News & Discussion

ghazi52

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Kedikesenfare2

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not now , but might be in future
now PAF went for Akinci and Tb2
too early to say ...
@Quwa @dBSPL @Signalian @PanzerKiel @JamD and others

May I ask you a question? Why is Pakistan not involved more in TFX project(s)?

People mistakenly think that TFX is just one big project but it has hundreds and hundreds of subcategories with totally differing programs spread over the entire defense tech spectrum.

Really, Idon't understand why Pakistan declined the Turkish invitation in the first place? Be honest, please. It can't be a resource related issue. The program itself is stretched over decades. It is possible for Pakistan to participate in it with careful planning. Yes, Turkey is ahead of Pakistan technologically but it's not like Pakistanis are empty-handed. They, too, have fields of expertise which could have helped accelerate the process.

A plane is more than its mere physical appearance. I believe that Pakistanis could have helped us out with everything related to software development.

There are other opportunities as well.

Outsourcing production parts to Pakistan with a highly skilled labour force, cutting costs, making the jet more competitive, bringing jobs to the Pakistani aviation industry while assisting Turkey, creating and supporting an eco systems that would benefit Pakistan for decades to come.

If I as a guy on the internet with zero knowledge and a layman can figure this out, why didn't the authorities in Pakistan approve to take part in this endeavour?

I'm not talking about Pakistan receiving the actual jet which is difficult due to the engine issue. I know that but there are other important aspects as well.

I'm asking why Islamabad refused to get involved in an industrial context which back then was an absolutely realistic approach.

Is it possible that the Pak military didn't believe in Turkey's capacity to go through with this project? What was the reason for Pakistan's reluctancy?
 
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fitpOsitive

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Actually Pakistan is very lucky country. We have very very good friends that we are a total mess on natuinal level, but our friend anyway keep helping us.
But yeah, there is limit to every thing and sooner we realize it, the better.
 

Abdul Rehman Majeed

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@Quwa @dBSPL @Signalian @PanzerKiel and others

May I ask you a question? Why is Pakistan not involved more in TFX project(s)?

People mistakenly think that TFX is just one big project but it has hundreds and hundreds of subcategories with totally differing programs spread over the entire defense tech spectrum.

Really, Idon't understand why Pakistan declined the Turkish invitation in the first place? Be honest, please. It can't be a resource related issue. The program itself is stretched over decades. It is possible for Pakistan to participate in it with careful planning. Yes, Turkey is ahead of Pakistan technologically but it's not like Pakistanis are empty-handed. They, too, have fields of expertise which could have helped accelerate the process.

A plane is more than its mere physical appearance. I believe that Pakistanis could have helped us out with everything related to software development.

There are other opportunities as well.

Outsourcing production parts to Pakistan with a highly skilled labour force, cutting costs, making the jet more competitive, bringing jobs to the Pakistani aviation industry while assisting Turkey, creating and supporting an eco systems that would benefit Pakistan for decades to come.

If I as a guy on the internet with zero knowledge and a layman can figure this out, why didn't the authorities in Pakistan approve to take part in this endeavour?

I'm not talking about Pakistan receiving the actual jet which is difficult due to the engine issue. I know that but there are other important aspects as well.

I'm asking why Islamabad refused to get involved in an industrial context which back then was an absolutely realistic approach.

Is it possible that the Pak military didn't believe in Turkey's capacity to go through with this project? What was the reason for Pakistan's reluctancy?


We Pakistanis are not delusional like the Turks. When Turkiye is able to make their own engine, Pakistan may consider the offer. Until then we have a very reliable partner in China.
 

Kedikesenfare2

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You say you don't understand why we do not join your project.

I say the onus is on Turkiye after the colossal failure of the T129 ATAK choppers deal.
No, bro, you obviously don't understand my point of view. I want to see the Made in Pakistan stamp on as much equipment as possible in the Turkish defense industry. This is not about procurement. Why can't you understand this? You have the industrial foundation to participate but you don't and I'm kindly asking for the reason behind this decision. Perhaps I'm overlooking something and that's why I'm asking.
 

HRK

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@Quwa @dBSPL @Signalian @PanzerKiel @JamD and others

May I ask you a question? Why is Pakistan not involved more in TFX project(s)?

People mistakenly think that TFX is just one big project but it has hundreds and hundreds of subcategories with totally differing programs spread over the entire defense tech spectrum.

Really, Idon't understand why Pakistan declined the Turkish invitation in the first place? Be honest, please. It can't be a resource related issue. The program itself is stretched over decades. It is possible for Pakistan to participate in it with careful planning. Yes, Turkey is ahead of Pakistan technologically but it's not like Pakistanis are empty-handed. They, too, have fields of expertise which could have helped accelerate the process.

A plane is more than its mere physical appearance. I believe that Pakistanis could have helped us out with everything related to software development.

There are other opportunities as well.

Outsourcing production parts to Pakistan with a highly skilled labour force, cutting costs, making the jet more competitive, bringing jobs to the Pakistani aviation industry while assisting Turkey, creating and supporting an eco systems that would benefit Pakistan for decades to come.

If I as a guy on the internet with zero knowledge and a layman can figure this out, why didn't the authorities in Pakistan approve to take part in this endeavour?

I'm not talking about Pakistan receiving the actual jet which is difficult due to the engine issue. I know that but there are other important aspects as well.

I'm asking why Islamabad refused to get involved in an industrial context which back then was an absolutely realistic approach.

Is it possible that the Pak military didn't believe in Turkey's capacity to go through with this project? What was the reason for Pakistan's reluctancy?
Some sort of discussion b/w Turkey & Pakistan was done in past & some low level cooperation was agreed b/w both the countries.
 

Sinnerman108

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May I ask you a question? Why is Pakistan not involved more in TFX project(s)?

People mistakenly think that TFX is just one big project but it has hundreds and hundreds of subcategories with totally differing programs spread over the entire defense tech spectrum.

Really, Idon't understand why Pakistan declined the Turkish invitation in the first place? Be honest, please. It can't be a resource related issue. The program itself is stretched over decades. It is possible for Pakistan to participate in it with careful planning. Yes, Turkey is ahead of Pakistan technologically but it's not like Pakistanis are empty-handed. They, too, have fields of expertise which could have helped accelerate the process.

A plane is more than its mere physical appearance. I believe that Pakistanis could have helped us out with everything related to software development.

There are other opportunities as well.

Outsourcing production parts to Pakistan with a highly skilled labour force, cutting costs, making the jet more competitive, bringing jobs to the Pakistani aviation industry while assisting Turkey, creating and supporting an eco systems that would benefit Pakistan for decades to come.

If I as a guy on the internet with zero knowledge and a layman can figure this out, why didn't the authorities in Pakistan approve to take part in this endeavour?

I'm not talking about Pakistan receiving the actual jet which is difficult due to the engine issue. I know that but there are other important aspects as well.

I'm asking why Islamabad refused to get involved in an industrial context which back then was an absolutely realistic approach.

Is it possible that the Pak military didn't believe in Turkey's capacity to go through with this project? What was the reason for Pakistan's reluctancy?

I am not sure if anyone here will be able to, or has the credentials to answer that question.
 

Hakikat ve Hikmet

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My assumptions:
  • Pak does the defense procurement and cooperation jobs without much fanfare and public knowledge for her finances, technological bases, external relations etc. are extremely opaque.
  • Pak's explicit involvement would raise unnecessary eye brows in the Western capitals, especially DC.
  • Pak has her own FGF project called AZM.
  • Pak loves to maintain secrecy and produce surprises.
  • Pak acts as a reaction to India's action.
  • Etc.
 

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