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Pakistan-Turkey 4 Milgem Ada Class Corvettes Contract - Construction started

ACE OF HEARTS

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Curious

1. If PN Milgem Corvettes / Frigate is better than Ada Class, higher tonnage etc, then why PN simply not opt for the I - Class frigate, which already had VLS and which was approved for production for the Turkish Navy?

2. Jinnah Class looks closer to the Tf - 2000 Frigate, 5000 Ton Class destroyer, with emphasis on AAW, with slight PN modifications e.g LACM?
 

Zarvan

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Curious

1. If PN Milgem Corvettes / Frigate is better than Ada Class, higher tonnage etc, then why PN simply not opt for the I - Class frigate, which already had VLS and which was approved for production for the Turkish Navy?

2. Jinnah Class looks closer to the Tf - 2000 Frigate, 5000 Ton Class destroyer, with emphasis on AAW, with slight PN modifications e.g LACM?
I really hope so. Jinah class should have VLS for both AAW and Land Attack Cruise Missiles. If it doesn't then it would total waste of money and energy.
 

Goritoes

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I really hope so. Jinah class should have VLS for both AAW and Land Attack Cruise Missiles. If it doesn't then it would total waste of money and energy.
You do know that New upcoming Subs will have the capability of launching CM's? Why is it that if future Frigate can't fire CM's a Waste of Time? Surface vessels are vulnerable to attacks from the enemy, while Subs are sneaky and under water, they can shoot and run deep without altering the enemy. The surface fleet is doing fine which they are supposed to, let them be the defensive fleet for whatever IN is planning to throw at PN, let the Modern AIP subs be our offensive punch, it will be much better.
 

iLION12345_1

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Curious

1. If PN Milgem Corvettes / Frigate is better than Ada Class, higher tonnage etc, then why PN simply not opt for the I - Class frigate, which already had VLS and which was approved for production for the Turkish Navy?

2. Jinnah Class looks closer to the Tf - 2000 Frigate, 5000 Ton Class destroyer, with emphasis on AAW, with slight PN modifications e.g LACM?
The requirements of the PN are different from the TN, these ships are nearly custom designs just for Us. Which makes them more useful for our navy’s roles. Many many underlying factors play a part here, everything from cost, timing, reliability, ease of manufacture and use, upgradability and so on, there’s large feasibility studies before any such decision is made. Rest assured they made the correct decision for their use case scenario.

Jinnah class may be based on either the Istanbul or the TF-2000, or maybe both, it’s not exactly the same as either of them, its customized for PNs specifications. it’s too soon to assume anything as all of what we hear about it is subject to change. We were all assuming HQ16 on these Milgems until just now. Given its size it’ll likely have all the capabilities that the navy needs it to have. Don’t forget that There are likely more large Chinese ships coming after Type 054AP too which might fill the role we want these ones to fill, or Vice versa.
 

CriticalThought

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The Pakistan Navy Forum 'wishing well' strikes again.

Literally everything we wish for on this forum comes true apparently.

...so...who wants aircraft carriers?

@JamD @SQ8 @Falcon26 @CriticalThought
True story. I once said to my Chinese friends, once you are done with your current aircraft carrier, we will buy it from you. And they are like, you are going to get it anyway. What are we going to do with it? It has no use for us! :D
 

Zarvan

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You do know that New upcoming Subs will have the capability of launching CM's? Why is it that if future Frigate can't fire CM's a Waste of Time? Surface vessels are vulnerable to attacks from the enemy, while Subs are sneaky and under water, they can shoot and run deep without altering the enemy. The surface fleet is doing fine which they are supposed to, let them be the defensive fleet for whatever IN is planning to throw at PN, let the Modern AIP subs be our offensive punch, it will be much better.
Well because our mindset is based on those few hundred years ago old ships. In modern times ships won't be involved in dog fight. In modern times war and ships have changed. Now more and more ships will have VLS with cruise missiles like 1500 KM range which can hit targets on land as well as moving ships with exactly same accuracy. If you have ships with Air Defence system and let say 8 Anti Ship Missile which has only 400 KM range then what will happen is your enemy if it's bigger then you will come up with a Brahmos 1000 KM version and fire 8 towards your ship and your ship will only be able to stop 3 at best and others will hit you. But if you have Ships and Frigates which can fire 1600 to 2400 KM range missiles and they can hit targets deep inside India as well as its ships that will prevent from you getting engaged in Naval blockade. Ships who can remain as far away from your enemy is the safest bet. Plus initiating offensive war.
 
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monitor

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If Pakistan Wants to see Jinnah Class Frigate as its premiere surface ship design and build in {pakistan based on an existing design by a friendly and brotherly country I would like to see it a 5000-5500 ton class frigate with AAW and Land Attack Cruise Missiles.:-)
 

Goritoes

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Well because our mindset is based on those few hundred years ago old ships. In modern times ships won't be involved in dog fight. In modern times war and ships have changed. Now more and more ships will have VLS with cruise missiles like 1500 KM range which can hit targets on land as well as moving ships with exactly same accuracy. If you ships with Air Defence system and let say 8 Anti Ship Missile which has only 400 KM range then what will happen is your enemy if it's bigger then you will come up with a Brahmos 1000 KM version and fire 8 towards your ship and your ship will only be able to stop 3 at best and others will hit you. But if you have Ships and Frigates which can fire 1600 to 2400 KM range missiles and they can hit targets deep inside India that will prevent from you getting engaged in Naval blockade. Ships who can remain as far away from your enemy is the safest bet. Plus initiating offensive war.
You miss the point in my post, Why do you think that PN is not looking to do exactly (Launching CM's) at India from a Distance using Subs? Submarines will be far more secured from the IN, having 4 heavy Frigates with the ability to fire CM range 1000+ will not give you an edge over IN, but 4 AIP equipped Subs, with 6-8 Babur III and torpedos will give nightmare to any IN CBG even attempting to do a blockade. CM from Surface ship is not something PN running after because they very well know that they easily achieve that from their newly ordered subs with far better protective positions (Deep Under Water).
 

Zarvan

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You miss the point in my post, Why do you think that PN is not looking to do exactly (Launching CM's) at India from a Distance using Subs? Submarines will be far more secured from the IN, having 4 heavy Frigates with the ability to fire CM range 1000+ will not give you an edge over IN, but 4 AIP equipped Subs, with 6-8 Babur III and torpedos will give nightmare to any IN CBG even attempting to do a blockade. CM from Surface ship is not something PN running after because they very well know that they easily achieve that from their newly ordered subs with far better protective positions (Deep Under Water).
Yes you should have Sub but that doesn't you should not have Ships. Every country is working on destroyers. China inducting two as we speak. USA launching several every year. So does India and other powers. You want CPEC you want to be a power you have to go for ships and destroyers which have both Air Defence system and Ship to Land Cruise Missile attack system
 

Goritoes

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Yes you should have Sub but that doesn't you should not have Ships. Every country is working on destroyers. China inducting two as we speak. USA launching several every year. So does India and other powers. You want CPEC you want to be a power you have to go for ships and destroyers which have both Air Defence system and Ship to Land Cruise Missile attack system
You just want Frigates to fire long-range CM because everyone else is inducting it? Mashallah Logic :D
So I am glad that PN does not hire people like you who just want something that others have, instead of going for the stuff which best suits their needs and role...
I keep telling you having a couple of Surface ships with the ability to fire Long Range CM will not give you an edge over the IN, Surface fleets are easy Targets especially for IN rising Anti Ship capabilities, so PN is looking towards their submarine fleet, remember the Gazi? One sub Paralyzed the entire IN, its fear was that strong even for a Sub that wasn't the top-notch of that time, now PN has signed for 8 Subs with AIP+Launch CM, they are testing it (Babur III). Submarines never even have to come to the surface to fire the CM, they can launch it while remaining hidden, Hell with the right strategy they can literally travel down to extreme close proximity of Indian naval bases, or Cities to launch missiles on their targets, but Surface fleets will always remain vulnerable to other Anti-ship missiles, IN has a large fleet which carries hundreds of Anti-ship missiles, many FAC's and anyone hit can literally disable your heavy Frigate with 1000 CM, then you have bring that ship back to base, while Subs can remain hidden, set up ambushes, and even take detours against any blockades (highly unlikely after the inductions of new subs). You are only repeating the same thing over and over again without giving a strong reason why PN should go for the surface fleet with the ability to launch CM's rather than going for Sumerage Fleets of Submarines which pose a far greater threat to any Navy let alone IN.
 

Zarvan

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You just want Frigates to fire long-range CM because everyone else is inducting it? Mashallah Logic :D
So I am glad that PN does not hire people like you who just want something that others have, instead of going for the stuff which best suits their needs and role...
I keep telling you having a couple of Surface ships with the ability to fire Long Range CM will not give you an edge over the IN, Surface fleets are easy Targets especially for IN rising Anti Ship capabilities, so PN is looking towards their submarine fleet, remember the Gazi? One sub Paralyzed the entire IN, its fear was that strong even for a Sub that wasn't the top-notch of that time, now PN has signed for 8 Subs with AIP+Launch CM, they are testing it (Babur III). Submarines never even have to come to the surface to fire the CM, they can launch it while remaining hidden, Hell with the right strategy they can literally travel down to extreme close proximity of Indian naval bases, or Cities to launch missiles on their targets, but Surface fleets will always remain vulnerable to other Anti-ship missiles, IN has a large fleet which carries hundreds of Anti-ship missiles, many FAC's and anyone hit can literally disable your heavy Frigate with 1000 CM, then you have bring that ship back to base, while Subs can remain hidden, set up ambushes, and even take detours against any blockades (highly unlikely after the inductions of new subs). You are only repeating the same thing over and over again without giving a strong reason why PN should go for the surface fleet with the ability to launch CM's rather than going for Sumerage Fleets of Submarines which pose a far greater threat to any Navy let alone IN.
What I want is Ships with those VLS which when needed can carry Air Defence missiles and when needed can carry Land Attack Cruise Misisles and if a ship has let say 24 or 30 VLS then divide them and put Land Attack Cruise Missiles in half and in other half put Air Defence missiles.
 

Goritoes

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What I want is Ships with those VLS which when needed can carry Air Defence missiles and when needed can carry Land Attack Cruise Misisles and if a ship has let say 24 or 30 VLS then divide them and put Land Attack Cruise Missiles in half and in other half put Air Defence missiles.
Ok...
1623571078463.png
 

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