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Pakistan-Turkey 4 Milgem Ada Class Corvettes Contract - Construction started

AZADPAKISTAN2009

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The Navy Modernization is a very slow process we have been hearing the discussions since 2016-2017 about the ships

But Pakistan is taking the necessary small steps to improve the Navy

It would have been ideal if the Turn around was 1 Ship a Year but it is what it is
 

ARMalik

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In my opinion these ships along with the Chinese should have ALREADY been up and running. I am afraid PN is running late, and in no position to provide any real offensive or defensive value presently. And to top it of, even if they were running late, they should already have J-16/J-15/JH-7 type fighters up and running but they have failed on all accounts.
 
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iLION12345_1

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The Navy Modernization is a very slow process we have been hearing the discussions since 2016-2017 about the ships

But Pakistan is taking the necessary small steps to improve the Navy

It would have been ideal if the Turn around was 1 Ship a Year but it is what it is
Read my posts on the previous page, these delivery times are normal, rather even quicker than they should be. 1 ship a year is impossible except if you’re china, and even then, that’s when it’s a large order and the ship isn’t a new design.

All of what Pakistan has ordered are new designs, not the same as the Turkish or Chinese ones, they need to go through a design phase, then a design test phase, then the building phase and then another test phase before delivery. These are massive warships and submarines brother. Even China is taking years and years to deliver our Hangor submarines because they are a new design, but the Type 054AP were finished very quickly because they are an existing design which China has made many of.
 

Syntage

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Read my posts on the previous page, these delivery times are normal, rather even quicker than they should be. 1 ship a year is impossible except if you’re china, and even then, that’s when it’s a large order and the ship isn’t a new design.

All of what Pakistan has ordered are new designs, not the same as the Turkish or Chinese ones, they need to go through a design phase, then a design test phase, then the building phase and then another test phase before delivery. These are massive warships and submarines brother. Even China is taking years and years to deliver our Hangor submarines because they are a new design, but the Type 054AP were finished very quickly because they are an existing design which China has made many of.
Turks are really slow in this domain.Its been 6-8 months since the construction started of the 1st the first ship and look at the timeline.With the regional conflicts looming, we don't have much time to prepare.As per current pace of Turks, when the conflict starts they will still be working on the ships.What good they will be for us?Same goes for Chinese Submarines.Payments can be rescheduled but the delivery should be made possible asap.
 

iLION12345_1

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Turks are really slow in this domain.Its been 6-8 months since the construction started of the 1st the first ship and look at the timeline.With the regional conflicts looming, we don't have much time to prepare.As per current pace of Turks, when the conflict starts they will still be working on the ships.What good they will be for us?Same goes for Chinese Submarines.Payments can be rescheduled but the delivery should be made possible asap.
Didn’t I literally just answer this twice? Do you know how long it normally takes to construct a ship, Especially when it’s a new design? This isn’t a Suzuki Mehran bro, it’s a 3000+ ton warship, it takes time because there is a design phase involved before the construction too. The submarines are even bigger and more complex.

For example, the average time from contract signing to delivery for a US Navy Burke class destroyer is FOUR YEARS. And that’s excluding the design phase. The time taken for the same destroyer from starting of construction to the launch of the ship is 10-11 months, and that’s before the testing phase, which takes a further few months. So 18 months from start of construction to delivery.
Let’s take a smaller ship, like a frigate, on average it takes 2 years for a US navy frigate to go from contract to launching. So close to 2.5 years for delivery. That’s apart from the 4 years taken to design it, granted ours are not starting from the ground up but based off an existing design, it still takes a few months in that phase.
Sources:
https://ingalls.huntingtoningalls.com/our-products/ddg/

So what makes you think Turkey or China are going to cut that down to 6 months?
I hope this puts an end to the needless hue and cry about the timeline of delivery for all our vessels.
 

Syntage

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Didn’t I literally just answer this twice? Do you know how long it normally takes to construct a ship, Especially when it’s a new design? This isn’t a Suzuki Mehran bro, it’s a 3000+ ton warship, it takes time because there is a design phase involved before the construction too. The submarines are even bigger and more complex.

For example, the average time from contract signing to delivery for a US Navy Burke class destroyer is FOUR YEARS. And that’s excluding the design phase. The time taken for the same destroyer from starting of construction to the launch of the ship is 10-11 months, and that’s before the testing phase, which takes a further few months. So 18 months from start of construction to delivery.
Let’s take a smaller ship, like a frigate, on average it takes 2 years for a US navy frigate to go from contract to launching. So close to 2.5 years for delivery. That’s apart from the 4 years taken to design it, granted ours are not starting from the ground up but based off an existing design, it still takes a few months in that phase.
Sources:
https://ingalls.huntingtoningalls.com/our-products/ddg/

So what makes you think Turkey or China are going to cut that down to 6 months?
I hope this puts an end to the needless hue and cry about the timeline of delivery for all our vessels.
I know bro n i agree with you that building a ship takes time considering the redesigning involved but we as well as Turks know that we don't have years n years to complete these boats.In emergencies they should work like Chinese (in terms of Type 54APs).Chinese know whats at stake so they work around the clock but Turks I think work 8 hrs a day.Times like these require preparations.
Look at their pace of work, they built 4 ships in 15 yrs.Look at constant changing situations & emerging threats and then look at their pace.Its irritating and annoying.
 

Tipu7

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I know bro n i agree with you that building a ship takes time considering the redesigning involved but we as well as Turks know that we don't have years n years to complete these boats.In emergencies they should work like Chinese (in terms of Type 54APs).Chinese know whats at stake so they work around the clock but Turks I think work 8 hrs a day.Times like these require preparations.
Look at their pace of work, they built 4 ships in 15 yrs.Look at constant changing situations & emerging threats and then look at their pace.Its irritating and annoying.
What emergency we are facing?
Are we planning to fight war with India by 2025?
Turks have recently started warship production and simply do not have natural production capacity as that of Chinese. Infact, no one in World can match Chinese as far as ship production pace is concerned.

Plus, look at development cost and time period. How much different PN Type-54A/P are from PLAN Type-54A? Not very much. Few new radars, new weapons, that's it. No major structural changes, no difference in size or displacement.

Now How much PN Milgem are different from Turkish ones? Entirely different class. A design based upon Turkish Milgem (2600 Tons) entirely upscaled to I-clas frigate level (3000 tons). And lets not forget that Milgem is bringing new technologies in Pakistan and a pair of ships will be producing in KSEW. All these tech tranfers also consume significant chunk of time.
Just have a look at Indian Kolkatta, Shivalik case, and you'll see how time consuming ship production is in actuality.
 

khansaheeb

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Didn’t I literally just answer this twice? Do you know how long it normally takes to construct a ship, Especially when it’s a new design? This isn’t a Suzuki Mehran bro, it’s a 3000+ ton warship, it takes time because there is a design phase involved before the construction too. The submarines are even bigger and more complex.

For example, the average time from contract signing to delivery for a US Navy Burke class destroyer is FOUR YEARS. And that’s excluding the design phase. The time taken for the same destroyer from starting of construction to the launch of the ship is 10-11 months, and that’s before the testing phase, which takes a further few months. So 18 months from start of construction to delivery.
Let’s take a smaller ship, like a frigate, on average it takes 2 years for a US navy frigate to go from contract to launching. So close to 2.5 years for delivery. That’s apart from the 4 years taken to design it, granted ours are not starting from the ground up but based off an existing design, it still takes a few months in that phase.
Sources:
https://ingalls.huntingtoningalls.com/our-products/ddg/

So what makes you think Turkey or China are going to cut that down to 6 months?
I hope this puts an end to the needless hue and cry about the timeline of delivery for all our vessels.
There are ways to cut down the manufacturing times but it requires experience and techniques. If the the ship is modular and the assembly of multiple ships is done concurrently/parallel then yes 6 months is feasible. You just need giant cranes, giant belts, giant machinery and 24/7 hour work force.
 

Tipu7

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BTW, i have measured the size of the VLS cutout on the Ada's for the PN and the VLS hole seems to align with the dimensions of SYLVER-A43.

nudge @Bilal Khan (Quwa)
SYLVER-A43 supports CAMM, Mica, Crotale and Aster-15.
As per the image, does than mean only 8x missiles on each boat?
Two sets of 8 VLS tubes: total 16 tubes.
In case of CAMM:
Each tube can carry four missile.
Therefore,
16X4 = 64 missiles in total per ship.

In case of Crotale, Aster-15 and Mica,
One missile per tube, totalling 16 missiles per ship.
 
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Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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BTW, i have measured the size of the VLS cutout on the Ada's for the PN and the VLS hole seems to align with the dimensions of SYLVER-A43.

nudge @Bilal Khan (Quwa)
CEO of MBDA Italia was at NHQ in Oct 2019.
What emergency we are facing?
Are we planning to fight war with India by 2025?
Turks have recently started warship production and simply do not have natural production capacity as that of Chinese. Infact, no one in World can match Chinese as far as ship production pace is concerned.

Plus, look at development cost and time period. How much different PN Type-54A/P are from PLAN Type-54A? Not very much. Few new radars, new weapons, that's it. No major structural changes, no difference in size or displacement.

Now How much PN Milgem are different from Turkish ones? Entirely different class. A design based upon Turkish Milgem (2600 Tons) entirely upscaled to I-clas frigate level (3000 tons). And lets not forget that Milgem is bringing new technologies in Pakistan and a pair of ships will be producing in KSEW. All these tech tranfers also consume significant chunk of time.
Just have a look at Indian Kolkatta, Shivalik case, and you'll see how time consuming ship production is in actuality.
I'd say the PN MILGEM is different from the I-Class family. The PN MILGEM is actually a scaled-up ADA (which could apparently go as far as 3,500 tons as a design) with capabilities comparable to the I-Class. However, the I-Class seems to be a different sub-family.

It'll be interesting to see if the Jinnah-class FFG follows from the PN MILGEM or the I-Class. And if it's the latter, might the PN still keep buying PN MILGEM corvettes in parallel to Jinnah-class frigates?
 

khanasifm

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CEO of MBDA Italia was at NHQ in Oct 2019.

I'd say the PN MILGEM is different from the I-Class family. The PN MILGEM is actually a scaled-up ADA (which could apparently go as far as 3,500 tons as a design) with capabilities comparable to the I-Class. However, the I-Class seems to be a different sub-family.

It'll be interesting to see if the Jinnah-class FFG follows from the PN MILGEM or the I-Class. And if it's the latter, might the PN still keep buying PN MILGEM corvettes in parallel to Jinnah-class frigates?
Mbda Italian can offer naval sparrow or spada an upgrade of albatross not sure about anything else

 

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