• Thursday, November 15, 2018

Pakistan should be a Secular State

Discussion in 'Military History & Tactics' started by truthlover, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. truthlover

    truthlover BANNED

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    The events as they have unfolded over the past few months have once again underscored the need for Pakistan to be a constitutionally secular state.

    Instead of getting into the debate as to whether Pakistan was meant to be a secular state (which I believe it was but that is not the point here) or a modern Islamic state (whatever that means), let us be very clear- it was NOT meant to be a state where rogue raggle taggle groups like the Taliban would challenge the writ of the state and then establish its own system of “justice” based on a misinterpretation of Islam. Islam is not the problem here. I tend to agree with the interpretation of Islam that is favored by Allama Ghamidi but the question that comes up is “which Islam?” Ghamidi’s? Or Israr Ahmad’s? Rahman Baba’s ? or the Taliban’s? Iqbal’s? or Maududi’s?


    Since easly 70s we’ve seen a steady erosion of fundamental rights in this country, all justified by the Islamic provisions of the constitution.

    Now therefore we must learn a lesson from this. Islam is a rational and pragmatic religion which aims to create a just and egalitarian society. It does not favor any exclusivism of any kind and treats faith as a matter between man and god. Islam also does not favor form over substance. A state does not become Islamic simply because it is called Islamic. Similarly a state meets certain criteria of social justice, equality and human solidarity, it is perfectly Islamic, even if there isn’t a single Muslim living there. ”. The issue of what constitutes an Islamic state has no consensus and therefore it much more advisable to strive for a just society that Islam claims it seeks to create.

    So let us not forsake the substance for form. Only a secular state which saves Islam from manipulation by various contending groups in this country can truly fulfill the aims and objectives of Pakistan as a prosperous and egalitarian state. This is no paradox. It was no paradox that the Muslims of South Asia chose as its leader someone like Jinnah who was so obviously disdainful of religiousity for anyone else would be too partisan or sectarian. The same principle applies on a state level.

    Let us say this openly: Pakistan needs to be a secular state to survive. There is no other way. True Islamic principles of equality, fraternity and justice dictate it.

    As Jinnah's own famous words go by : Religion should not be allowed to come into Politics….Religion is merely a matter between man and God”.
    Pakistan needs to implement the approach adopted by countries like Turkey , Malaysia so that real progress can be achieved instead of creating an army of defenders of faith who cause more damage to the nation than do anything for its progress practically .
     
  2. Gentelman

    Gentelman SENIOR MEMBER

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    Pakistan is ment to be a model Islamic state following the Quran Rules and Allah's Laws working on basic principal of Unity,Faith and discipline……
    But we didn't gave place to Islam after Qaids death thats why we are facing these miserable illiterate moulvis who don't understand the Quran and just want people to follow whatever they are saying……:azn:
     
  3. Peaceful Civilian

    Peaceful Civilian BANNED

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    Ask it from Ijaz-ul-Haq, a son of Zia-ul-Haq . And also from Nawaz sharif
     
  4. Abu Zolfiqar

    Abu Zolfiqar Rest in Peace

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    as weird as this may sound, I think you can be an Islamic State but with many secularist principles. Basically - what JINNAH SAHIB wanted.

    Actually what he envisioned was a welfare-state but unfortunately with the dirty politics and the dirty feudalistic mindset in parts of the country that would be difficult unless there were major structural changes


    no, that doesnt mean socialism or "wealth distribution"....ZA Bhutto tried that, and he fcked the country over
     
  5. truthlover

    truthlover BANNED

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    I agree with you.Moulvis plus our policies to support USA after the 1970,s changed pakistan too much.Fundamentalism begin during zia ul haq period.Whatever religious clashes we are facing today is the product of jahil moulvis who claim that we are the descendents of arabs and warriors like muhammad bin qasim lol :D
     
  6. OrionHunter

    OrionHunter ELITE MEMBER

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    The concept of Secularism in Islam has been claimed to have religious sanction too. The Sahih of Imam Muslim, the second most authentic book on Hadith, dating from the 2nd century Hijrah, contains a chapter headed as follows:

    “Whatever the Prophet has said in matters of religion must be followed, but this does not apply to worldly affairs.”

    In other words, according to the prophet himself (PBUH), religion and politics of state governance, should not be mixed. They are two separate entities. But nowadays we have 'Political Islam' which is contrary to the Hadith and where secularism is considered to be un-Islamic.
     
  7. truthlover

    truthlover BANNED

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    Basically we are less islam driven and more driven by nationalism .Politicians uses islam wherever the saw the opportunity to full fill their dirty objectives .Today in our country islam mostly exists in politics and less in our real lives and we are the product of confused ideology and distorted history.I personally know many foreigners who were shocked when they saw Pakistan with their own eyes rather than the perception about pakistan they developed from media.According to them it is less islamic than most muslim countries.Tell me in which pure islamic country like saudi arabia etc people have sex and drink in mujra parties?.Where they have a vulgar film industry like ours?Our banking system is not islamic and almost all pakistanis have interest bearing accounts.In islam there is just nikkah and walima but here we celebrate mehdis and barats .In which islamic nation there is a licensed alcohol manufacturing company(muree brewary in pakistan) and 90% of their customers are muslims?Practically we are secular people living in a islamic state.
     
  8. d-fence

    d-fence FULL MEMBER

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    In fact, the truth is somewhere between the two extremes, and the Quaid set up Allama Muhammad Asad to find that solution by setting him up as the head of the Department of Islamic Reconstruction. However, after Quaid prematurely passed away, the secularists cut Allama Asad short and stole our renaissance. To see the middle way that Asad wrote about google "This Law of Ours Muhammad Asad" or "Marching Beyond Waziristan Hussain"

    "....therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Kafirun." (Quran, 5:44)
     
  9. MM_Haider

    MM_Haider FULL MEMBER

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    pakistan's survival is based on the secularism only where the politics is done without the need to use religion.. and people are having equal rights irrespective of creed cast and religion.. this is not happening... and i disagree with you that Islam is not in our life.. today Islam as compared to 1947 is more into our life... mosques are full of namazis.. people do fast more than past time..
     
  10. LEGENDARY WARRIOR

    LEGENDARY WARRIOR FULL MEMBER

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    Islam has its own system. KHILAFAT.
    People in Pakistan have adopted the western form of government and blame Islam for not being compatible with it. WHICH IS WRONG!!
     
  11. hunter_hunted

    hunter_hunted SENIOR MEMBER

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    Let the winds of shittty discussion begin
     
  12. bronxbull

    bronxbull BANNED

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    I dont see much happening.
     
  13. Horus

    Horus ADMINISTRATOR

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    @truthlover

    "As Jinnah's own famous words go by : Religion should not be allowed to come into Politics….Religion is merely a matter between man and God”.


    Do we have a credible source of this or you just invented it for your own convenience ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2013
  14. rockstarIN

    rockstarIN SENIOR MEMBER

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    Execution is devil.

    People interpret it for their personal benefits, whether it is secularism or anything else.

    It will come down to as how the people are, more precisely how the education system is.
     
  15. chhota bheem

    chhota bheem BANNED

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    This will help....
    secularpakistan.wordpress.com/2010/01/26/jinnahs-will-to-the-nation-he-founded/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2013