• Wednesday, November 13, 2019

Pakistan says 3% of drone deaths civilians

Discussion in 'Pakistan's Internal Security' started by Lil Mathew, Oct 31, 2013.

  1. Lil Mathew

    Lil Mathew BANNED

    Messages:
    1,153
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2013
    Ratings:
    +3 / 844 / -8
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/10/31/pakistan-done-deaths/3322539/


    ISLAMABAD (AP) — The Pakistani government said Wednesday that 3% of 2,227 people killed in U.S. drone strikes since 2008 were civilians, a surprisingly low figure that sparked criticism from groups that have investigated deaths from the attacks.
    The number, which was provided by the Ministry of Defense to the Senate, is much lower than past government calculations and estimates by independent organizations that have gone as high as 300. The ministry said 317 drone strikes have killed 2,160 Islamic militants and 67 civilians since 2008.
    The attacks, which mainly target suspected Islamic militants near the northwestern border with Afghanistan, are widely unpopular in Pakistan because they are viewed as violating the country's sovereignty and killing too many civilians. The Pakistani government regularly criticizes the drone program in public, even though it is known to have secretly supported at least some of the strikes in the past.
    Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif pressed President Barack Obama to end the attacks in a visit to the White House last week, but the U.S. considers the attacks vital to its battle against al-Qaida and the Taliban and gave no indication it was willing to abandon them.
    The latest strike occurred around midnight Wednesday, when missiles destroyed a vehicle in Miran Shah, the main town in the North Waziristan tribal area, a major militant sanctuary, Pakistani intelligence officials said. No one was killed in the attack, said the officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to the media.
    Defense Ministry officials could not be reached for comment on their civilian casualty figure, and the statement posted on the Senate's website did not give any indication why the number was so much lower than past government calculations and outside estimates.
    A U.N. expert investigating drone strikes, Ben Emmerson, said earlier this month that the Pakistani Foreign Ministry told him that at least 400 civilians have been killed by the attacks in the country since they started in 2004.
    Emmerson called on the government to explain the apparent discrepancy, saying the figures provided by the Foreign Ministry since 2004 indicated a much higher percentage of civilian casualties.
    "If the true figures for civilian deaths are significantly lower, then it is important that this should now be made clear, and the apparent discrepancy explained," Emmerson said in an email.
    The Bureau of Investigative Journalism, based in London, has estimated that drones have killed at least 300 civilians in Pakistan since 2008, while the Washington-based New America Foundation put the figure at 185. These estimates are often compiled based on media reports about the attacks.
    Pakistan's overall death toll is lower than some other totals, although not to the same degree as its figure for civilians. The New America Foundation registered 2,651 people killed in the same period, while the Long War Journal website has 2,493.
    The danger of traveling to the remote tribal region targeted by the strikes makes it difficult to compile an accurate number of civilian casualties.
    The U.S. rarely speaks publicly about the CIA-run drone program in Pakistan because it is classified. But some American officials have insisted that the strikes have killed very few civilians and that estimates from the Pakistani government and independent organizations are exaggerated.
    Amnesty International called on the U.S. to investigate reports of civilians killed and wounded by drone strikes in Pakistan in a report released earlier this month that provided new details about the alleged victims of the attacks, including a 68-year-old woman killed while farming with her grandchildren.
    Mamana Bibi's grandchildren told the London-based rights group that she was killed by missile fire on Oct. 24, 2012, as she was collecting vegetables in a family field in North Waziristan. Bibi's relatives testified before members of the U.S. Congress on Tuesday.
    The Amnesty report also cited witnesses as saying that a volley of missiles hit a tent where 18 men with no links to militant groups were eating after work, then a second struck those who came to help the wounded on July 6, 2012 in North Waziristan. Pakistani intelligence officials at the time identified the dead as suspected militants.
    In its latest statement, the Pakistani government said 21 civilians were killed in 2008, nine in 2009, two in 2010 and 35 in 2011. But it insisted no civilians have been killed since then.
    Amnesty researcher Mustafa Qadri said he was skeptical about the government figures because it conflicted with their research and indicated a failure of the state to adequately investigate alleged civilian casualties.
    The London-based human rights group, Reprieve, called the government's civilian casualty figures inaccurate, based on higher numbers it said were submitted to the Peshawar High Court by the top official in North Waziristan earlier this year.
    An Associated Press study in early 2012 of 10 of the deadliest drone strikes in North Waziristan over the preceding 18 months found that of at least 194 people killed in the attacks, about 70 percent — at least 138 — were militants. The remaining 56 were either civilians or tribal police, and 38 of them were killed in a single strike.
    The Interior Ministry also said Wednesday that "terrorist" attacks have killed 12,404 people and wounded 26,881 others since 2002, although these figures were disputed by some senators. The government has been battling an insurgency by the Pakistani Taliban, which seeks to topple the country's democratic system and impose Islamic law. It was not clear if the figure involved only attacks on civilians, or also attacks on security forces.
    A roadside bomb killed five soldiers and wounded three others Wednesday in the South Waziristan tribal area, the Pakistani Taliban's main sanctuary before the army conducted a large ground offensive in 2009, said military officials. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity in line with military policy.
    Also Wednesday, a bomb exploded in a market in southwestern Pakistan, killing two people and wounding at least 20 others, said police official Ahmad Raza. The attack occurred in Quetta, the capital of Baluchistan province. The province is home to both Islamic militants and separatists who have waged a low-level insurgency against the government for decades.
    Associated Press writers Abdul Sattar in Quetta, Pakistan, Ishtiaq Mahsud in Dera Ismail Khan, Pakistan, and Rasool Dawar in Peshawar, Pakistan, contributed to this report.
     
  2. GR!FF!N

    GR!FF!N ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    8,706
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Ratings:
    +11 / 8,409 / -15
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    what a terrible turn of events..from "High Rate of Civilians Casualty" to such a huge drop to 3%???various organizations claimed in the past that around 15% of all the victims were women and children.:what:
     
  3. rockstarIN

    rockstarIN SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    6,140
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Ratings:
    +1 / 3,616 / -3
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    United Arab Emirates
    Now nobody should cry about at least in the forum.
     
  4. SamantK

    SamantK SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    5,560
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Ratings:
    +0 / 4,991 / -13
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    Now that's what I would call a self-goal. Why is Pakistan so adept at it :lol:
     
  5. Emmie

    Emmie MODERATOR

    Messages:
    5,756
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2011
    Ratings:
    +9 / 8,513 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    WTF! Man with a rug on his head has attenuated the position of his own government! Overconfidence or by choice?
     
  6. Ayush

    Ayush SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    7,806
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Ratings:
    +3 / 11,367 / -5
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    only 3% ?? drones are doing a good job.
     
  7. Oldman1

    Oldman1 SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    6,707
    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Ratings:
    +2 / 3,164 / -1
    Country:
    United States
    Location:
    United States
    All they have in the articles are estimates as they said.
     
  8. VCheng

    VCheng ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    38,640
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Ratings:
    +57 / 32,650 / -4
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United States
    Although I was derided and ridiculed previously when I said correctly that the drones were (and are) one of the best options available to deal with the problem in the Tribal areas (and elsewhere), the 97% accuracy figure admitted by Pakistan verifies what I had said all along.

    Speaking the truth is not a popularity contest, obviously.
     
  9. Wasim Aasim

    Wasim Aasim FULL MEMBER

    New Recruit

    Messages:
    76
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2013
    Ratings:
    +0 / 73 / -0
    What do we want to Prove to the whole world ? On one side we were crying that Drone mostly targets Civilians and on the other hand we our self denied it. Our Politicians and Force again has been caught with their Pant down. This is the only reason world community does not take us seriously be it Kashmir,Water,Terrorism or WOT issue.

    One should sue them for all the shame they bring to Pakistan.
     
  10. Bratva

    Bratva PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

    Messages:
    13,320
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Ratings:
    +47 / 20,615 / -1
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Qatar
    Our military establishment, ministry of defense are bunch of plain liars when it comes to national security matters. What did they say, I don't believe an iota of word.
     
  11. ranjeet

    ranjeet BANNED

    Messages:
    18,277
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Ratings:
    +1 / 39,334 / -51
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    I don't know man, people outside pakistan agreed to such things a lot earlier but i guess people in higher places need to convince people on the ground.
     
  12. nair

    nair ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    11,625
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2012
    Ratings:
    +10 / 17,102 / -0
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    3% civilian casuality is not bad..... ( its sad that 3% innocents lost their life)..... That shows the kind of intelligence US had inside pak.....
     
  13. oFFbEAT

    oFFbEAT SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    2,861
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2011
    Ratings:
    +2 / 2,958 / -34
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    Drones are so accurate and hence effective........kudos to US technology...........a ground invasion would have surely resulted in lot more civilian deaths........
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013
  14. GR!FF!N

    GR!FF!N ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    8,706
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Ratings:
    +11 / 8,409 / -15
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    buddy,can you tell me if Pakistan provides its civilians something in the line of RTI in India??if it was in India,at least tens of thousands would file RTI to know the real fact.but in Pakistan,it seems nobody bothers to check if the govt is lying or its the rest of the world.
     
  15. niaz

    niaz PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

    Messages:
    4,675
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Ratings:
    +176 / 9,453 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Dawn's editorial today.

    http://dawn.com/news/1053305/the-numbers-at-last-drone-deaths

    Regardless whether these figures are right or wrong. Even with GOP agreement I am against Drones.

    I am an old man with old time values. I addition to fact that these are attacks by a foreign power inside Pakistan and an insult to our sovereignty, I would like to deal with my enemies myself and not depend upon others to kill them for me.