• Friday, July 19, 2019

PAKISTAN POSITIONING JF-17 FOR GROUND ATTACK ROLE

Discussion in 'Pakistan Air Force' started by Alternatiiv, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. Alternatiiv

    Alternatiiv SENIOR MEMBER

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    Quwa Premium Excerpt
    PAKISTAN POSITIONING JF-17 FOR GROUND ATTACK ROLE
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    The Turkish defence electronics supplier Aselsan reportedly said that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has 50 ASELPOD targeting pods on order. The PAF ordered its first batch of eight ASELPODs in 2016, with reports of follow-on orders of unknown quantities. In 2018, Aselsan confirmed that it and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) successfully integrated the ASELPOD to the JF-17 Thunder.

    This recent news would confirm that the PAF is not only committed to inducting the ASELPOD, but that it will position the JF-17, its mainstay fighter, as a prominent ground attack asset.

    Currently, the PAF has equipped the JF-17 to deploy the 60-100 km Range Extension Kit (REK) or Takbir – i.e., a precision-guided bomb (PGB) kit for MK-80-series general purpose bombs (GPB) – and C-802 anti-ship cruising missile (ASCM). A laser-guided bomb (LGB) should follow the integration of the ASELPOD. In March 2019, the PAF also test-fired a new precision-guided munition of an unknown typev.

    With the ASELPOD, the JF-17 can hit fixed and moving ground targets. In terms of the latter, it can use the ASELPOD to designate – or “lase” – a target for its LGBs, even if the target is moving. Similarly, the JF-17 could also, potentially, use laser-guided air-to-ground missiles (AGM) – though it is not known if the PAF is seeking an AGM (akin to the AGM-65 Maverick).

    The Case for Repurposing Older JF-17s for Ground Attack Missions

    On first thought, it would make sense for the PAF to equip the upcoming JF-17 Block 3s with the ASELPOD. The JF-17 Block 3 will reportedly have a greater payload and, potentially, a dedicated hardpoint for special mission equipment, such as targeting pods, reconnaissance pods, and others.

    However, the Block 3 will also be a high-tech asset with more qualities suitable for operating in contested air space, such as an integrated electronic warfare (EW) suite, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, and helmet mounted display and sight (HMD/S) with high off-boresight air-to-air missile.

    The Block 3’s main purpose will likely be to shore-up the PAF’s ability to fend-off high-tech threats, such as the Dassault Rafale (albeit, with the need of greater numbers and other supporting assets). However, for ground attack missions, especially in a low-intensity, counterinsurgency (COIN) context, the PAF may rely more heavily on the JF-17 Block 1 and/or Block 2.

    There is a limit to the Block 1 and Block-2’s upgrade potential – i.e., they cannot reach true Block 3 levels – and they are, at this stage, older airframes. It could also be the case that the Block 3 has a higher upgrade ceiling or potential due to its structural changes, which the designers likely made to ensure that the fighter could carry an AESA radar, integrated EW suite, and other subsystems from the onset.

    Given the PAF’s turn on the JF-17B – i.e., a platform it had intended for only export, and now expanding the PAF’s new JF-17 orders to 76 aircraft – the likely route for additional “high-tech” JF-17s would be to order more of them. In other words, the future mainstay of the PAF fleet (especially if the PAF is unable to acquire another off-the-shelf fighter) would be the JF-17 Block 3/JF-17B and its direct evolutions.

    However, moving to the Block 3 does not mean that the Block 1 and Block 2 are any less valuable. To the contrary, they could amount to a significant upgrade for ground attack missions. Having retired the A-5, the PAF lacks a close air support (CAS) asset analogous to the Jaguar. Thus, there may be an opportunity to repurpose older JF-17s for this role, and not only for COIN, but for conventional CAS operations as well.

    https://quwa.org/2019/07/01/pakistan-positioning-jf-17-for-ground-attack-role-2/

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    A very excellent read. On a side note, something the article didn't mention is that the Block III will also feature bigger and more widened intakes to adjust for new engine and give the jet more speed.

    I think it's likely that the Mirages will be replaced by these upgraded Block IIs while for air superiority and to replace F-7P Block IIIs will be inducted.

    I am hopeful that with its new design, much more advanced tech, low maintenance cost and price tag, tailoring to fly like a F-16, it will replace the F-16 in international market eventually.

    The biggest issue I think for the JF-17 Thunder at the moment is its frame's and body's life. Compared to other jets at same level or above, it is generally half. Not expensive to maintain but hectic to replace and maintain ofcourse overall.

    PAF needs to designate more to composite materials as well as PLC management so that it receives the attention and sales globally that it deserves.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
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  2. maverick1977

    maverick1977 FULL MEMBER

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    U did pee pee by sharing that we should use it in Yemen ... there are a lot of fanatic mullah brigade and TTP across border that can be targeted
     
  3. Trango Towers

    Trango Towers ELITE MEMBER

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    Test them in Yemen....why bomb a people who have done us no wrong?
     
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  4. Trango Towers

    Trango Towers ELITE MEMBER

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    I think a lot of stuff is Alternatiiv's personal views. Like limitations of block 1 and 2. But the Yemen thing just showed lack of thinking
     
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  5. Alternatiiv

    Alternatiiv SENIOR MEMBER

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    I know I will sound like an asshole saying this but Yemen is the headlines right now. And to be clear, I mean helping the Saudi-led Coalition against the terrorist group in Yemen trying to seize control from the legitimate Government. It is my personal opinion we should not let our allies down.

    I will edit that bit out and post it in separate comment here. And to be clear, I meant helping the Saudi-led Coalition against the terrorist group in Yemen trying to seize control from the legitimate Government. It is my personal opinion we should not let our allies down.

    My own opinion bit edited out to here:

    It might be good if Pakistan was to test the new beauties in Yemen, lots of friends to help there and lots of targets to bomb :) Maybe it will also increase export chances and interest, and even increase value of Pakistan's new Aeronautical Industry if it does wonders in Yemen.

    Also, usage in popular combat theatre like Yemen will help.

    This article is not written by me. Quwa is a global defense analyst media outlet. My opinion is below the lines. Any limitations I have mentioned like frame life are true and sourced.

    Quwa is a very good group. Their analysis is sourced, they make good balanced judgements, and most of all they don't overextend or make mountains out of peanuts.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
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  6. Trango Towers

    Trango Towers ELITE MEMBER

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    3
    Quwa is plain wrong.
    I think re your opinion on Yemen. Would u go fight for the Saudi or send your son to kill people who have done us no wrong? I mean after all Saudis are your friends.
     
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  7. Vortex

    Vortex FULL MEMBER

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    In this case I’m afraid it’s not letting allies down, but fighting when it is right not when it is wrong.

    But it is another debate. So i will stop talking about this issue.
     
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  8. Alternatiiv

    Alternatiiv SENIOR MEMBER

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    Quwa isn't wrong. What's wrong with the article, it is spot on.

    Also, Houthis have done a lot of wrong to Saudi Arabia, and Yemen who are Pakistan's allies. Saudi Arabia and UAE were only countries in entire world to support and offer financial help when Pakistan performed nuclear tests. Even now, they are helping with financial crisis.

    In regards to your personalization of the issue, I can say that we all hate TTP, I am sure you do too; why don't you send your son to fight them?

    @Khafee

    Also, you got it wrong. Saudi Arabia isn't my friend, it's Pakistan's friend.
     
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  9. Turan09

    Turan09 FULL MEMBER

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    Pakistani Air Force really loved Aselpod its look like. 50 with only one order is a great number. You guys even bomb India with Aselpod if I am not mistaken? I hope we will see more Turkish avionics on Jf-17 in future.
     
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  10. Trango Towers

    Trango Towers ELITE MEMBER

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    So now you have gone to TTP and yes I lost a nephew to TTP. He was in the army. I would go against Pakistan's enemies myself. You shying away from answering a direct questions shows what you are. Anyways. No point arguing. I got you clear. We fight for Saudi money to kill innocents but you will not fight or send your son.
     
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  11. Alternatiiv

    Alternatiiv SENIOR MEMBER

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    From what I have heard Mk-80 were used so don't think so.

    It's interesting though the amount of defence co-operation between Pakistan and Turkey. The PAF ACM a while back had mentioned that PAF was interested in Turkey's TAI T-FX program for collaboration in Project Azm, I am really interested to know about that.

    I am sorry for your loss and I do maintain respect for a soldier's life.

    This is my opinion simply and it is not based on money but on valuing Pakistan's interests which lie in valuing its close Alliance. I do not regard Houthi as innocent, they are very close to what TTP is.
     
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  12. Trango Towers

    Trango Towers ELITE MEMBER

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    I saw a video from Paris on the TFX. 2028 is the date. It's far away

    Bro that's why war is bad and should only be fought for us. No Arab fights for us and they wont even fight for all aqsa.
     
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  13. Alternatiiv

    Alternatiiv SENIOR MEMBER

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    Yes, it's being developed and same goes for AZM. Fifth generation jets are a huge feat. You need a lot of research, University collaboration, and collaboration from outside. Co-operation with Turkey which will have access to S-400, has access to one of the best Avionic systems, has worked on F-35, and also has agreements with UK to develop a new jet, it will be of immense help to us.
     
  14. Cash GK

    Cash GK FULL MEMBER

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    Seriously....
     
  15. GriffinsRule

    GriffinsRule FULL MEMBER

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    Houtis are as much terrorists as are Kashmiris ... that is not at all
     
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