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Pakistan officially inducts HQ 9 Air Defence system

LeGenD

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Do houthis have cruise missiles? :crazy: never heard of them. But they do have some shitty Ballistic missiles for sure.
Yes.

Ya-Ali (400 KM claimed range)
Quds (700 KM claimed range)
Soumar (1200 KM claimed range)
Houveizah (1400 KM claimed range)

These are developed with Iranian input (and supply of parts).

Yemen also had stockpile(s) of the Chinese-origin C-802. This inventory is depleted.

Among ballistic missiles, Burkan-class is the most prominent.


Source: Breaking Defense

The latest Burkan-3 is impressive for a liquid-fueled design.
 

airmarshal

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The main missile performance of FD2000B is equivalent to 48N6E3, and that of HQ9B is equivalent to 48N6DM.

FD2000B is similar to S300PMU2.
HQ9B is similar to S400 lacking 48N6.
HQ9C is similar to S400 with enhanced anti missile capability.
HQ19 is similar to a mixture of THAAD-ER and S500.

S500 is not an upgraded version of S400. S400 is an upgraded version of S300P and S500 is an upgraded version of S300V. S400 is suitable for air defense in important locations, and S500 is suitable for theater air defense (77N6N and 77N6N1 are more suitable for intercepting fighters).
HQ9C and HQ19 have better anti missile capability than S400 and S500. HQ9B has the capability of intercepting missiles with a range of 600km, HQ9C has the capability of intercepting missiles with a range of 1000km, and HQ19 has the midcourse anti missile capability. HQ19 is similar to THAAD, HQ29 is similar to PAC3, HQ26 is similar to SM3, and SC19 is used to intercept satellites.
So the HQ9P is equivalent to which version?
 

xyxmt

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That is the worst way to open a thread

anyway people, lets talk to him and only thru logical reasoning we can overcome his inferiority complex
 

Great Janjua

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Your knowledge of PAC-3 is very limited it seems, or, you are on purpose crapping over Patriots. First off, PAC-3 blocks produced since 2015 have full 360 coverage and there is a brand new technology being used in it called Gallium nitride technology. Secondly, the operational and maintenance cost of the system has been cut down to half. Third, the Patriot was actually famous for defense against BM's (remember 1990's Iraq war and later). Patriot's design principles include distributed processing. So instead of having one unit in one place, you could deploy multiple units covering multiple directions and using the AESA engagement radars, all of these batteries can provide 360 degrees and before they were bi-directional with coverage across a much larger area.

Lastly, with PAC, the world knows about many BM and aircraft attacks that were destroyed midcourse. Can you show me where S-300 were ever successful? For crying out loud, the S-400 was in place in Syria when the US attacked the same airbase it was operating out of. Yet, no warning was given outside of the US telling the Russians it would attack the base as a protocol.
Mate, you're just having a butt hurt harangue where in my post did I crap about PAC 3 or its BM defence capabilities go-ahead file it out. Secondly, PAC 3 does not have 360 missile engagement unless multiple engagement units are deployed in a buddy network whilst on the other hand systems established on Russian air defence protocol such as hq9 or s300 have valid independent 360-degree missile engagement due to its missile launch procedure.

Similarly neither did I pertain or downgrade PAC 3 and its capabilities in terms of BM protection as opposed to hq9 or s300, all I meant was unlike PAC which gives more prestige to anti-BM warfare systems like s300 give a broader engagement profile be it from the low end of the spectrum to the high in terms munition defence.

In conclusion, any system has to be configured to one's terrain and established AD network plus easy integration as this plays a vital role in determining the outcome of a system. in our case, hq9 is well above the rest as it hits all the points I just mentioned above.

The same can be said for the Saudis with their PAC 3.

Also forgot to add I didn't even touch upon mobility and ease of firing on systems based upon Russian AD philosophy, that is another ball game.
 
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serenity

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I think it's hard to say S-300 and S-400 performance is lower than the others just because of Syrian example. Those missiles were rarely used. During Israeli and US attacks, Russian AD missiles were not used in many cases like the airport one. In one city attack I remember the S-200 and S-300 were used? And performed quite well.

AD is always much less than 90% or whatever measured PK. Even 4th generation fighters have advantage over all AD in existence. AD basically just makes things harder and forces attacking side to use more resources and plan more carefully but AD itself is not really that capable of repelling attacks even close to 90% against competent and well organized attacks.
 

IbnAbdullah

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Salaam

Had to open this thread out of frustration.
Pakistanis are so deep in their inferiority complex that they always downplay own country's capabilities.
With the new HQ-9P purchase which is most likely the HQ-9BE, people are sure it's some old junk from Chinese bone yard and not the latest export version.
The BE version has ABM capabilities and out of the usual Pakistani inferiority complex, nobody is discussing that.
So come on, take the risk, and discuss that.
When you clearly define your capabilities, you also give out your limitations. That is why Pakistan chooses to mostly downplay and/or hide capabilities as much as possible. This way you are able to surprise your enemies.
 

Rafi

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I think it's hard to say S-300 and S-400 performance is lower than the others just because of Syrian example. Those missiles were rarely used. During Israeli and US attacks, Russian AD missiles were not used in many cases like the airport one. In one city attack I remember the S-200 and S-300 were used? And performed quite well.

AD is always much less than 90% or whatever measured PK. Even 4th generation fighters have advantage over all AD in existence. AD basically just makes things harder and forces attacking side to use more resources and plan more carefully but AD itself is not really that capable of repelling attacks even close to 90% against competent and well organized attacks.
That's right, AD just is the cherry on the cake, whereas fighter, awaacs are the body of the cake.
 

V. Makarov

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There's a debate going on the sidelines of the HQ-9 induction regarding air defence in Karachi and Lahore. Team Lahore has gone a bit sentimental talking about the cultural and historical significance of Lahore and it being a population hub, basically all of the things that don't matter in air defence.

First, let's analyze what air defence is primarily used to defend:
- Airbases
- Defence Production Facilities
- Cantonments
- Strategic Infrastructure
- Arms Depots
- Nuclear facilities.

Now, let's do the required comparison.

Lahore

IV Corps HQ
Lahore Cantt
Allama Iqbal International Airport
Karachi-Peshawar Railway Line
Major Locomotive Works

Karachi

V Corps HQ
Karachi Cantt
Malir Cantt
Jinnah International Airport
PAF Base Malir
PAF Base Korangi Creek
PAF Airbase Faisal (Karachi's airbases are tasked with defence of Southern Sindh)
PAF Airbase Masroor (All of PAF's Naval Squadrons)
PAF Airbase Bholari (close proximity)
Port of Karachi
Port of Bin Qasim
Petroleum Facilities at Port Bin Qasim
Beginning Point of Karachi-Peshawar Railway Line
Karachi Shipyard And Engineering Works
PN Facilities at Manora
Navy Dockyards (Primary Naval Base, a little searching on Google Maps would make clear its importance)
Kanupp II and III
Major installations related to our jawab if India goes naughty

I understand that the Karachi-Lahore rivalry will never die, but please leave your petty sympathies and politics at home when discussing defense. O7.


Sidenote:
All areas of Pakistan deserve to be defended equally :). This post was just a comparison to make clear priorities.
Where is Butt Karhai restaurant under the Lahore heading? Do some homework before posting.
 

luciferdd

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Actualy ABM capatibility of hq-9 is very questionable,china initialy did based its missile partialy on S-300V but ABM part of S-300V was never added..it doesnt have dedicated ABM batalion level engagment radar as S-300V,VM and dedicated giant missile...that is what gives S-300V and VM true ABM capability to engage SCUD like missiles so I dont realy know what makes it ABM capable,it is probably only limited to low atlitude quasi BM...not effective for true BM. S-300 V/VM has dedicated giant missile(TEL with two larger missiles) and one additional higher level engagment radar..something s-300P family and HQ-9 never got..they marketing probably HQ-9 as Russians S-300 P family.."limited ABM capability"..which actualy not exist since it only can engage short range,low atlitude quasi BM..those are BM like Luna...they have low atlitude trajectory as rockets..True SCUD like BM fly outside atmosphere first,than warhead separate from missile and it reach hypersonic speed in lower trajectory...that is why you need high altitude engagement radar and missile that can hit missile at higher atlitude while not at full speed. That is why S-300V/VM has additional missile and radar
Both HQ-9A/B and S300-PMU1/2 have limited ABM capatibility that can only intercept SRBM with a range ≤1000KM,it's clearly.China never declared HQ-9BE has a same capatibility to THAAD at ABM,it's the work for HQ-19 and btw HQ-19 had already deployed in Yunnan years ago.
 
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IceCold

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Even if it does, it will not be used in this role simply because of the fact that we cannot afford ABM shield. Its intended purpose will remain and always be to provide High altitude defense to key strategic locations of Pakistan.
 

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