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Pakistan officially inducts HQ 9 Air Defence system

Aesterix

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Gwadar is at the border of Pakistan and adjacent to much more contested and controversial area of straits of hurmuz.

GHQ as well as other HQs, C&C hubs should be transferred to Quetta as it would be a lot safer to command & control from there incase of war. It would further help to stabilize Quetta and its surroundings and a good sign for the development of the region.

Additionally Politicians would have a hard time travelling from Islamabad to GHQ gate#4.
Gwadar is at the border of Pakistan and adjacent to much more contested and controversial area of straits of hurmuz.

GHQ as well as other HQs, C&C hubs should be transferred to Quetta as it would be a lot safer to command & control from there incase of war. It would further help to stabilize Quetta and its surroundings and a good sign for the development of the region.

Additionally Politicians would have a hard time travelling from Islamabad to GHQ gate#4.
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SQ8

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OK thats great. In future hypothetical scenario, if lahore gets assimilated by Indians and Karachi is destroyed in bombardment. What else is left for you to defend and cover? Margalla hills, Thar and Waziristan! Pakistan would never be able to recover from those economic blows. Pakistan can very well survive and prosper without its capital. Because there is nothing more than some Govt offices, Head offices of money pit Govt enterprises and a beautiful Mosque built by Saudis.

If Lahore falls then Gujranwala would be a piece of cake and sialkot would be surrounded. All of these territories are tactically vital for Pakistan. It would strengthen the defense of vulnerable IOK supply route of Indian forces and push Pakistani troops on the far side of the Chenab River. And capitulation of those areas would act as a springboard for Indian forces to further occupy the AJK territories.

Pakistan's Railways network would be cut off in half and that too without any railways workshops and manufacturing facilities. Lahore's new and old airports would immediately be converted into indian FOBs within the heart of Pakistan. Then there wouldn't be any safe spot left to hide.

Lahore itself is a vital asset as India's historic obsession with Lahore explains it all. It's one of the most developed, advanced and populated city in Pakistan. It's the 2nd biggest business hub of Pakistan. And many vital assets and their families live in Bahria town, countless phases of DHA, Cantt, GOR 1 etc. too :P. And no one would be able to proudly twist his well groomed mustaches on wahga border again.

What east Pakistan had to defend by then? Now their textile exports alone are more than the total exports of Pakistan.

All brains and no balls makes oneself an eternal slave :azn:
Lahore is symbolic but doesn’t stop Pakistan’s war effort from moving forward. Just because PML(N) decided to make Lahore their entire focus doesn’t mean its advanced infrastructure or food scene have actual contributions to ensuring men & material can be thrown into the defense of the country.
Karachi can be bombarded all over but that is where it needs to be protected due to it providing the lifeline to the Sea and the facilities at SITE,KPT and Port Qasim.

Everything you have provided in Lahore’s defense is purely symbolic and nothing more. Lahore can be leveled to the ground but if the port facilities near Karachi(and Gwadar) keep functioning the rest of the country will continue to operate. Lose the ports and then you can happily go to wagah and twist your mooch on a donkey because no fuel is coming in to run your vehicles.
 

The Terminator

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Induction of HQ-9 is a welcome and much more needed addition to Pakistan Air Defence. Now it's time to strengthen and modernize the PAA.

IMHO PAK army should secretly induct a squadron of JF-17 of their own and place them all along the eastern border in groups of 4 to 5 fighters. It would be a massive force multiplier for the Army. Even the most basic variants of thunders would do the job.

Reasons:
Fighter jets are the apex predators of the modern battlefields, they can severely damage almost all the components of opposing forces and their attack could be retaliated only by a few of the systems. They are equally effective in defensive or offensive operations.

It would balance out any deficiencies in armor, air defence, gunship helicopters, firepower or artillery.

Spread all along the border in small groups deployed from the mini bases disguised as highways and hangers disguised as industrial buildings, would mean better coverage and instant availability, and far better survivability of the air fleet. Can act as an immediate reinforcement to the ground troops as Supersonic Air QRF.

Would relieve already stretched out PAF, and PAF's primary role would be to attack enemy's major bases, contain or defeat IAF and defend PAF's vital assets like AWACs, Refuelers, air bases etc. In pressure and key moments PAF may not be able to support and answer Army's all requests. That's why Army Aviation is created to support military formations in the skies regardless of air force support availability and better integration/Chain of command of its air assets.

The advent of BVR AA missiles, Stand off precision guided bombs/missiles it's time to upgrade the PAA with those lethal force multipliars and to deter similar capabilities of the enemy. As armored formations and gunships would be sitting ducks against those capabilities.

This can tilt the entire balance of ground forces capabilities and would be a great surprise and death sentence for any possible enemy armored thrusts, would increase the nuclear threshold and make nuclear capable systems like Nasr completely redundant. It would act like Army's insurance policy in worst case scenarios like if PAF gets massive losses in its fighter fleet and/or major air bases.
 

SQ8

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Don't you think it'd be wise to relocate the headquarters of each service arm to Gwadar or Quetta? They're comparatively farther out of India's reach and, perhaps, the move can help Baluchistan's development?
It would be wise to have controlling facilities that can mirror those functions there but for normal peacetime you want the administrative and command functions to be close to civil administration and command.
Which is why the AD center is in Faisalabad but GHQ has mirrored links to what happens there. The Pentagon is extremely vulnerable to attack near the coast which is why NORAD is in central US along with other distributed command center.

Command functions are still duplicated in a few other facilities so the leadership can evacuate to them. But it makes no sense to take every aspect(including procurement dept, HR admin or ancillary functions) to these wartime locations.

Quite simply you want everything close to the population and decision centers in peacetime but shouldn’t be bothered during war whether lance naik Rana Shahid Taqi’s CMH treatment record has been properly stamped in triplicate to bring along - unless @PanzerKiel feels otherwise
 

Jf-17 block 3

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Induction of HQ-9 is a welcome and much more needed addition to Pakistan Air Defence. Now it's time to strengthen and modernize the PAA.

IMHO PAK army should secretly induct a squadron of JF-17 of their own and place them all along the eastern border in groups of 4 to 5 fighters. It would be a massive force multiplier for the Army. Even the most basic variants of thunders would do the job.

Reasons:
Fighter jets are the apex predators of the modern battlefields, they can severely damage almost all the components of opposing forces and their attack could be retaliated only by a few of the systems. They are equally effective in defensive or offensive operations.

It would balance out any deficiencies in armor, air defence, gunship helicopters, firepower or artillery.

Spread all along the border in small groups deployed from the mini bases disguised as highways and hangers disguised as industrial buildings, would mean better coverage and instant availability, and far better survivability of the air fleet. Can act as an immediate reinforcement to the ground troops as Supersonic Air QRF.

Would relieve already stretched out PAF, and PAF's primary role would be to attack enemy's major bases, contain or defeat IAF and defend PAF's vital assets like AWACs, Refuelers, air bases etc. In pressure and key moments PAF may not be able to support and answer Army's all requests. That's why Army Aviation is created to support military formations in the skies regardless of air force support availability and better integration/Chain of command of its air assets.

The advent of BVR AA missiles, Stand off precision guided bombs/missiles it's time to upgrade the PAA with those lethal force multipliars and to deter similar capabilities of the enemy. As armored formations and gunships would be sitting ducks against those capabilities.

This can tilt the entire balance of ground forces capabilities and would be a great surprise and death sentence for any possible enemy armored thrusts, would increase the nuclear threshold and make nuclear capable systems like Nasr completely redundant. It would act like Army's insurance policy in worst case scenarios like if PAF gets massive losses in its fighter fleet and/or major air bases.
Why not just give that squadron to paf for cas missions only? It would cost far less for them to operate it than army and will make more sense
 

skyshadow

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Pakistan is only 1500km long from Khunjarab to Karachi and average breadth of 400 km.
Even of we consider HQ-9 P has same range as FD-2000 which is 125km, just 7 launching vehicles can cover the entire Pakistan with a wall of high altitude SAM.
That's enough for our needs.

I guess PAF will stock the good old CAP and sending planes to intercept incoming enemy planes. PA will be the second line of defence.

I just hope we don't end up like Iran, with this distribution of air defence..
They boasted about punishing USA but ended up shooting down a passenger jet and killing innocent civilians. All due to lack of structure and bad communication.
Iran like any other nation at war ( USA, Russia ) has mistakenly shot down an airliner with an old Russian Tor-m1 system tragic accident but never the less Iran air defense network has a lot of things that we all can learn from like 8 years of war with Iraq and it has to defend and coordinate a country twice as big as Pakistan from enemies like US and Israeli which have better and more powerful air force then India and EU it self, other things like detecting stealth drones and bring them down or shooting down world's most biggest and powerful drone at 100 km distant with it own newly built system or detection of collection fighter jets and warning them at hundreds of kilometers away detecting F-35 and F-22s that fly around its borders near UAE or building Bavar-373 with 250 km range and anti ballistic missile defense system building all kind of active or passive radars, shooting down Azerbaijani drones that came to Iran or building an air defense system with the range of +400 km, building replacement for Tor-m1 and Tor-m2 , setting up a 15 year long air defense road map to build Bavar-373 from 2009 building over the horizon radars with 2000 km range

you are going to ignore all of that just because of one accident ?

Bavar-373

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Anti ballistic missile system

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3rd of Khordad the system that shot down MQ-4C

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or other system's

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over the horizon radars

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The Terminator

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Why not just give that squadron to paf for cas missions only? It would cost far less for them to operate it than army and will make more sense
Apart from initial deployment, It wouldn't cost that much extra as logistics would be shared. The real issue would be of Chain of command. Pilots, technicians trained with PAF but employed by army under Army's command would be better.
 

Aesterix

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Iran like any other nation at war ( USA, Russia ) has mistakenly shot down an airliner with an old Russian Tor-m1 system tragic accident but never the less Iran air defense network has a lot of things that we all can learn from like 8 years of war with Iraq and it has to defend and coordinate a country twice as big as Pakistan from enemies like US and Israeli which have better and more powerful air force then India and EU it self, other things like detecting stealth drones and bring them down or shooting down world's most biggest and powerful drone at 100 km distant with it own newly built system or detection of collection fighter jets and warning them at hundreds of kilometers away detecting F-35 and F-22s that fly around its borders near UAE or building Bavar-373 with 250 km range and anti ballistic missile defense system building all kind of active or passive radars, shooting down Azerbaijani drones that came to Iran or building an air defense system with the range of +400 km, building replacement for Tor-m1 and Tor-m2 , setting up a 15 year long air defense road map to build Bavar-373 from 2009

you are going to ignore all of that just because of one accident ?

Bavar-373

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Anti ballistic missile system

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3rd of Khordad the system that shot down MQ-4C

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or other system's

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Instead of writing such a long essay to defend Iran, you could have wrote something to praise Pakistan and Pakistan army .
Iranians can defend their country on the Internet, and you as a foreigner don't need to do such free services.
 

skyshadow

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Instead of writing such a long essay to defend Iran, you could have wrote something to praise Pakistan and Pakistan army .
Iranians can defend their country on the Internet, and you as a foreigner don't need to do such free services.
don't get me wrong I'm more happy for Pakistan the some of you guy's, posting comments to defend my Pakistani brothers openly even on there own forms looking and analyzing your air defense network for years , but it bugs me that some of you guy's think Iran Air defense is weak just because of one tragic accident
 

The Terminator

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Lahore is symbolic but doesn’t stop Pakistan’s war effort from moving forward. Just because PML(N) decided to make Lahore their entire focus doesn’t mean its advanced infrastructure or food scene have actual contributions to ensuring men & material can be thrown into the defense of the country.
Karachi can be bombarded all over but that is where it needs to be protected due to it providing the lifeline to the Sea and the facilities at SITE,KPT and Port Qasim.

Everything you have provided in Lahore’s defense is purely symbolic and nothing more. Lahore can be leveled to the ground but if the port facilities near Karachi(and Gwadar) keep functioning the rest of the country will continue to operate. Lose the ports and then you can happily go to wagah and twist your mooch on a donkey because no fuel is coming in to run your vehicles.
Lame excuses and utter generalization wouldn't validate your point.

Fuel/Gas can be imported from Iran via land routes easily. It's already been smuggled from there. Men and infrastructure are crucial to recruit and support military in a war through local support, manpower and economics. Loosing population centers would create an entire new crisis. You wouldn't have men left to fight, to squeeze money from to pay ever increasing loan payments and support massive militaries. The fertile and strategically vital lands of Punjab are much more important both economically and militarily. If AJK is encircled and lost there wouldn't be any need to fight again.

After bombarding and leveling all the infrastructure, population centers and industries what would you use imported oil in, even if somehow the port were to be still intact? How would you be able to pay for that oil?
 
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KaiserX

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don't get me wrong I'm more happy for Pakistan the some of you guy's, posting comments to defend my Pakistani brothers openly even on there own forms looking and analyzing your air defense network for years , but it bugs me that some of you guy's think Iran Air defense is weak just because of one tragic accident
Iranian SAMs have been blasted to pieces by the Israeli/US airforce since the last decade in Syria/Iraq. When did Iran ever shoot down even 1 US/Israeli jet in the last 4 decades? dont fool yourself

Iranian airforce is obsolete with almost no BVR capable aircraft, except for the dozen F14 tomcats that still have to rely on 60s era Phoenix missiles :D

Iran has invested heavily in SAMS no doubt, but they have yet to be capable so far as to shoot a harmless drone down... Pakistan still relies mostly on its Fighter jets compared to its SAM systems. Even with the introduction of HQ9 batteries full focus will remain the PAF.

At the end of the day fighter jets have far too many hands up their sleaves against SAM systems. If SAMs were so effective then why do major powers still invest in their fighter jets? Everyone should follow the Irani model and just build SAMS with almost no airforce:D
 

Zarvan

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Iranian SAMs have been blasted to pieces by the Israeli/US airforce since the last decade in Syria/Iraq. When did Iran ever shoot down even 1 US/Israeli jet in the last 4 decades? dont fool yourself

Iranian airforce is obsolete with almost no BVR capable aircraft, except for the dozen F14 tomcats that still have to rely on 60s era Phoenix missiles :D

Iran has invested heavily in SAMS no doubt, but they have yet to be capable so far as to shoot a harmless drone down... Pakistan still relies mostly on its Fighter jets compared to its SAM systems. Even with the introduction of HQ9 batteries full focus will remain the PAF.

At the end of the day fighter jets have far too many hands up their sleaves against SAM systems. If SAMs were so effective then why do major powers still invest in their fighter jets? Everyone should follow the Irani model and just build SAMS with almost no airforce:D
Exactly. Air Defence systems are really over rated. Whether HQ 9 or S 400. Yes they are effective to some extent but not as effective as they are told to be.
 

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