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Featured Pakistan Navy Type 054AP Frigates - Update, News & Discussion

luciferdd

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PN only need to sink 1/3 of IN fleet the remaining 2/3 would be sunk by incompetent IN itself.
To locate the IN fleet,PN need a strong aerial reconnaissance force too.Without a strong airfoce,you will even can't find where the enemy fleets are, let alone sink them all.And once you locate the IN Fleet,you will be able to sink them all by your cute planes efficiently,the entire operation does not require the participation of warships. And vice versa it is very dangerous to expose PN's surface fleet to the operational range of the enemy's air force,the air force can use standoff strike weapons to launch one-way strikes against surface fleets easily.
 

Thorough Pro

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You are right PN won't be able to locate the 2/3rd of the IN fleet for the reasons I already mentioned

To locate the IN fleet,PN need a strong aerial reconnaissance force too.Without a strong airfoce,you will even can't find where the enemy fleets are, let alone sink them all.And once you locate the IN Fleet,you will be able to sink them all by your cute planes efficiently,the entire operation does not require the participation of warships. And vice versa it is very dangerous to expose PN's surface fleet to the operational range of the enemy's air force,the air force can use standoff strike weapons to launch one-way strikes against surface fleets easily.
 

lcloo

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What improvement this batch will have over previous ships?
We don't know exactly what have been changed but we can be certain that many electronic sensors, example like fire control radar above the helicopter hangar has been changed to flat pannel radar, most likely AESA radar, the height of the rear end section of hangar is now taller than before.

We only have one rear end photo of 31st ship, aka 1st ship of second contract, as depicted below. Thus our observation is limited to the stern part only, at least at this moment.

We can only know what other changes once we got detail photo of the mid and front section of these new ships.

0 b231.jpeg
 

TheDarkKnight

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@waz

my thoughts remain the same really as what i said, these are ASW ships with the capability to defend themselves, unfortunately, i cant speak about the power generation and kinematic performance of the ship since its not something im clued up on, however, from what i can tell its not exactly much slower than comparable vessels, so there's that.

With regards to sensors and whatnot, my views are pretty much something like this;

theyre not bad ships, but the thing is, its not ideal for this day and age, if these were being bought 15-20 years ago, I'd be pretty excited, however, they're not something that will keep the enemy up at night.

Though, im not going to discount the fact that these were sold at a rate below what the PLAN pays, alongside this, they are produced fast and bring a new capability.

TBH, id actually be pretty content if the PN decided to buy more of these, however, not new build, rather, used PLAN hulls at a discounted rate, like the BN with their 053H3's, i think its a great way to build up a backbone for the PN, since while, officially they are ASW ships, they are very much multi-role and can take on whatever is thrown at them to an extent lol.


The downfall of these Indian defence geniuses is that they're like, PN smol haha we win!

They seem to forget quite quickly that their force has to be spread between the PN and then the worlds second-largest navy, which then should really make them realise that their perceived advantage may not be as great as they want. They also seem to forget that the PN is a defensive force by nature, 50 missile-equipped surface ships, with a 16+ submarine fleet, supported by land-based batteries of missiles, radars and SAM's could put a spanner in the works for them, especially since the PN will continue to develop their systems on a qualitative basis, since they cant match on a quantitative one, idiots forget we have 1/8th of the coastline to defend lol


BTW, i dont come here too often anymore, if you need me to reply faster, you can @ me on twitter, i always check it, @isipuppet. Eventually ill get on to posting more technical stuff again, im a bit tired lately
There was a previous discussion on this thread regarding number of SAMs that can be actively guided by type54a is just two:
“The Type 344 (Mineral-ME Band Stand) radar above the bridge provides ship-ship missile control, over-the-horizon radar acquisition and target designation of surface vessels, while four Type 345 (Nato reporting name: MR-90 Front Dome) F-band radars provide two channels to guide two air defence missiles simultaneously.

Does it mean each FCR can guide 2 missiles or the combination of 4 provide the capability to guide only two simultaneously? This seems strange.
The Hq16 land version on the other hand has the capability to guide upto 8 missiles simultaneously
“ The radar guidance vehicle is equipped with an L band PESA that controls the missile launching and target illumination after the missile is fired. The radar has a range of 85 km and can detect up to 6 targets, track 4 simultaneously and provide fire control for 8 missiles.[2]

@Rashid Mahmood
@Bilal Khan (Quwa)
Would like your opinion on this as well.
 

Akh1112

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There was a previous discussion on this thread regarding number of SAMs that can be actively guided by type54a is just two:
“The Type 344 (Mineral-ME Band Stand) radar above the bridge provides ship-ship missile control, over-the-horizon radar acquisition and target designation of surface vessels, while four Type 345 (Nato reporting name: MR-90 Front Dome) F-band radars provide two channels to guide two air defence missiles simultaneously.

Does it mean each FCR can guide 2 missiles or the combination of 4 provide the capability to guide only two simultaneously? This seems strange.
The Hq16 land version on the other hand has the capability to guide upto 8 missiles simultaneously
“ The radar guidance vehicle is equipped with an L band PESA that controls the missile launching and target illumination after the missile is fired. The radar has a range of 85 km and can detect up to 6 targets, track 4 simultaneously and provide fire control for 8 missiles.[2]

@Rashid Mahmood
@Bilal Khan (Quwa)
Would like your opinion on this as well.

yes, i was the one who discussed it :p


 

Rashid Mahmood

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That must be way back in the 70's / 80's, I remember the old destroyers my father served on in the 70's Taimoore, Babur, Badar


People discuss what they are capable of discussing
I served on PNS Tughril from 1991-1993.
It was decommissioned in 2001.
Here's something;


He claims the 054AP will be underpowered, even though it is comparable to most other ships of its size. 4x Shaanxi Diesel engines 4 x 7 600hp for 30 400hp ship total.

He then contradicts himself and says the Type 382 radar, then writes later about the advantages of the SR2410C RD radar

Don't take indian comments serious.
Neither they warrant any further discussion.
 

Bossman

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To locate the IN fleet,PN need a strong aerial reconnaissance force too.Without a strong airfoce,you will even can't find where the enemy fleets are, let alone sink them all.And once you locate the IN Fleet,you will be able to sink them all by your cute planes efficiently,the entire operation does not require the participation of warships. And vice versa it is very dangerous to expose PN's surface fleet to the operational range of the enemy's air force,the air force can use standoff strike weapons to launch one-way strikes against surface fleets easily.
Why do you think PN does not have a strong MPA fleet?
 

luciferdd

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Why do you think PN does not have a strong MPA fleet?
I doubt PN have a strong air-strike force to face IN fleet while the Pakistani fleet was blocked at the port by IN fleet in 2019.Had PN ever tried to organize an air-fleet with more than 30 aircraft of various types to launch a saturation strike?
 
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alimobin memon

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lcloo

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I think that they did not go for newer variable sonar is the fact that they reportedly opted only for newer improved search and air survelliance radar. Since, its targetted as air defense ship more than anti submarine ?
It also depend on hydrographic condition in seas around Pakistan. If there are different layers of salinity of water under different depth that caused complexity in sonar detections, then a Variable Depth Sonar (VDS) would be vary useful.

If Pakistan has the surrounding seas fully surveyed and mapped, and deemed the water condition is not complex, then Pakistan's ship based and aircraft based sonar gears are sufficient to deal with intrusion of IN's submarines, therefore not buying VDS for frigates will not affect much of PN's anti-submarine capability.

Another explanation could be funding, though I think this is not a good reason.
 

alimobin memon

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It also depend on hydrographic condition in seas around Pakistan. If there are different layers of salinity of water under different depth that caused complexity in sonar detections, then a Variable Depth Sonar (VDS) would be vary useful.

If Pakistan has the surrounding seas fully surveyed and mapped, and deemed the water condition is not complex, then Pakistan's ship based and aircraft based sonar gears are sufficient to deal with intrusion of IN's submarines, therefore not buying VDS for frigates will not affect much of PN's anti-submarine capability.

Another explanation could be funding, though I think this is not a good reason.
Right thats what Im saying. Maybe there is no use. but I highly doubt its budget issue as pakistan has finally ordered large ships they would never risk getting with lesser performing suite.
 

SQ8

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I doubt PN have a strong air-strike force to face IN fleet while the Pakistani fleet was blocked at the port by IN fleet in 2019.Had PN ever tried to organize an air-fleet with more than 30 aircraft of various types to launch a saturation strike?
When exactly did this happen?

Pakistan Navy air support is provided by dedicated PAF squadrons. In 2019 it could muster 15 aircraft of both JF-17 and Mirage VPA types armed with anti-ship missiles. By 2025 it will be 45 aircraft it can muster on day 1 armed with AsHMs of 250km+ range.
 

S A L M A N.

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The name "Babur" is used a lot in Pakistan
  • Babur Missile (Series I , II , III )
  • Babur Frigate (PNS Babur)
Interesting choice of name Opting for name Tughril a certain change from Norm

Some people have imagined Tipu to be name reserved for something special down the road

Surprisingly we do not use the Names of Companions of Prophet

Ababeel Missile name was very creative 100%


Caliph Names would be welcomed
  • Abu Baker
  • Umer
  • Ali
  • Usman
Other prominent figures
  • Hassan
  • Hussain
  • Abu Talib

Prominent General

Many Nishan-e Haider Recipient's names


Prominent Islamic Cities name
  • Mekkah
  • Medina
  • Istambul
  • Baghdad
  • Al Quds
  • Palestine (Country)

Hopefully when it comes time to name the Submarines , perhaps some considerations are made
"You must understand that when the Messenger of Allah, on whom be the blessings of Allah and peace, named you Saifullah - the Sword of Allah, he predetermined that you would not fall in battle. If you had been killed by an unbeliever it would have meant that Allah's sword had been broken by an enemy of Allah; and that could never be."
This is what a friend of Hazrat Khalid bin Waleed (RA) said in reply to his lament, "I have sought martyrdom in a hundred battles. Why could I not have died in battle?"

I think that this is the primary reason for not naming PN ships after personalities and places which are decidedly holy (have immense religious significance). Naming a ship after one of the Caliphs of Islam (RA), other personalities (e.g Khalid bin Waleed RA himself), after the Holy cities of Islam or after the Nishan-e-Haider recipients can result in the desecration of the name in case the ship is sunk or damaged by the enemy. And that would have an immense psychological impact on us, in that a ship named after a holy personality or national hero who spent his life in pursuit of the highest values of Islam or perhaps even gave his life in the struggle against a decidedly infidel enemy, has been sunk by that same enemy.

Therefore, it is a good idea to steer away from these Holy personalities/places of national heros while naming Naval vessels.

With this said, we do have examples of PN vessels being named after military personalities from Islamic history e.g. the Khalid-class submarines (Agosta-90B) i.e. PNS Khalid, Saad and Hamza.

As for the Hangor class subs, they were historically named as Hangor, Mangro and Shushuk (local names of fish) - the new Hangor-class will also probably have these names in addition to other new names. The Hangor class will give us a HUGE submarine fleet, larger than any we have ever had.

In general, however, the PN has focused on names which reflect values/qualities (e.g. Jurrat, Shujaat), objects of historical significance and underlying symbolism (e.g. Zulfiqar, Saif, Aslat - named after swords of the Holy Prophet SAW and the Righteous Caliphs), battles from Muslim history (e.g. Badr, Khaiber, Yarmook, Tabuk), Mughal kings and other Muslim military commanders of the subcontinent (e.g. Babur, Tipu Sultan, Shah Jahan, Alamgir), etc.

Naming the PN flagship as PNS Babur reflects Babur's status as the conqueror of India. However, I think that it would be only proper that the honor of being the PN flagship is transferred tot he PNS Jinnah (the first Jinnah-class ship) when it is commissioned.
 

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