• Tuesday, August 4, 2020

Pakistan Navy Submarines: A Silent Force to Reckon with!

Discussion in 'Pakistan Navy' started by Myth_buster_1, Sep 20, 2009.

  1. Contrarian

    Contrarian ELITE MEMBER

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    The difference in the Naval fleets will start showing 2017 onwards when the new Shipyards and the existing ones will be completely modernized. Right now IN is short of shipyards to order their ships and this will continue till 2014.
     
  2. IceCold

    IceCold PDF VETERAN

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    F-22 are not corvettes but frigates.
     
  3. raveolution

    raveolution FULL MEMBER

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    Yes they are Frigates... Growler has used the term "stealth corvettes". I used the quote for the convenience of reference.:cheers:
     
  4. ice_man

    ice_man SENIOR MEMBER

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    Last edited: Oct 20, 2009
  5. unicorn148

    unicorn148 FULL MEMBER

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    dont even try to compare the powers of both the navys even in the 1971 war neary the entire navy of the pak was wiped out
    mr ice_man india has not send army to take over kashmir

    it was anticipated that the Maharaja of kashmir would accede to Pakistan, when the British paramountcy ended on 14-15 August. When he hesitated to do this, Pakistan launched a guerilla onslaught meant to frighten its ruler into submission. Instead the Maharaja appealed to Mountbatten[20] for assistance, and the Governor-General agreed on the condition that the ruler accede to India."[21] Once the Maharaja signed the Instrument of Accession, "Indian soldiers entered Kashmir and drove the Pakistani-sponsored irregulars from all but a small section of the state.

    pakisthan uses agosta subs but the france navys has decommissioned their agosta's where as IN will be useing the next generation scorpians and india has build a nuclear subs indigenously which are far superior to even the type214 what pak is planning to buy
    IN will even hav 2 akula 2 subs which are one of best nuclear subs in the world
    IN is even planiing to buy 6 more subs which are superior to the 214

    in case of distroyers pakisthan dont have even one IN has 8 distroyers and 4 being build indigenously

    in case of frigates pakistan have 8 frigates and 2 under construction in china and also buying 6 frigates of us navy which are 30 years old
    in IN has 12 frigates and 6 under construction of which 3 are indigenously made

    and IN has 1 aircraft carrier and 1 being build in russia and one being build indigenously in india
    PN presently cannot even dream of having an aircraft carrier
     
  6. ice_man

    ice_man SENIOR MEMBER

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    MY GOD!!! have you come straight from BAHRAT RAKSHAK???? and what is PAISHTAN i have highlted it for you!!!!

    look let's not derail this thread about history!!! for that you can go read some excellent debate on the kashmir issue in the section!

    as for pakistan decommissioning AGOSTA 90b's why would we do that??? we just got them....please back up your story with an article!

    as for destroyers or frigates...India has more agreed but have you seen our coast line compared to your's? i mean if anything Pakistan has a huge navy for its coastline while india infact has a very small navy for its size!!! 12 frigates & 3 or 4 destroyers are nothing given the size!

    and as for aircraft carriers & dreaming about aircraft carriers well Pakistan doesn't need an aircraft carrier reason is again maritime area is small & we have no plans to project power in the area! our enemy can be reached by our frigates & from flying straight over land border! so no need for an aircraft carrier which needs to go far in order to reach close to enemy shoreline!
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2009
  7. unicorn148

    unicorn148 FULL MEMBER

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ice_man View Post
    as for pakistan decommissioning AGOSTA 90b's why would we do that??? we just got them....please back up your story with an article!



    no i am saying that france navys has decommissioned their agosta's 90s
    thats says how old tech those subs are which are no comparision to even kilo-class subs used by india
     
  8. garibnawaz

    garibnawaz SENIOR MEMBER

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    French Navy used Agosta 70's and not 90's.

    Agosta 90's are different and are modernised design built for the Pakistan Navy. No other country has Agosta-90.

    Various modifications give lower acoustic signature, lower diving depth, improved battery range and performance. Greater automation also allows the crew to be reduced from 54 to 36. The submarine can be armed with up to 16 torpedoes and SM39 Exocet anti-ship anti-ship missiles.

    The third Agosta-90 of PN is equipped with the MESMA air-independent propulsion (AIP) system.

    GB
     
  9. unicorn148

    unicorn148 FULL MEMBER

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    but still the even the agostha 90b cant match the capabilities of the scorpian subs and even if pakisthan is planning to buy the u 214 it will take 9-10 years for the 3 subs. by then india will have 2 akula 2 subs and 5-6 ATVs and 6 scorpians and 6 other DCNS and 10 kilo class subs
     
  10. AZADPAKISTAN2009

    AZADPAKISTAN2009 ELITE MEMBER

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    Oh what the heck - its getting too complicated , launch the nuke underwater ...

    There goes the scorpions and aircraft carrier , end of story, it will create a giant tsunami and that should take care of all the 20 frigates and also take out the place where the new ones are being built

    Thank you Sir Abdul Qadir Khan for the ultimate response
     
  11. garibnawaz

    garibnawaz SENIOR MEMBER

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    First its Scorpene.

    Secondly its Type 214 and not U-214.

    Thirdly Type-214 is also offered to India. Its who places the order first situation between India and Pakistan.

    Fourthly DCN is yet to offer any submarine for Project-75B as of today only Type-214 and Amur are offered.

    Fifthly in next 10 years we won't be having 5-6 ATV's.

    Sixthly Kilo's will start retiring 2012 onwards so you won't have 10 of them in next 10 years.

    and last but not the least a comparision between Agosta 90's and Scorpene's of IN is premature at this stage.

    GB
     
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  12. unicorn148

    unicorn148 FULL MEMBER

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    IN is planning to build a min of 5 ATV by 2020 and it will also have2 akula 2 subs and kilo class subs have been retofitted and the life has been extended and some of them are undergoing.
    the project 75 b will be completed by 2020
    List of submarines of the Indian Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    the constructin of the 2nd-3rd ATVs has started which will be launched in 2011-2012
     
  13. raveolution

    raveolution FULL MEMBER

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    Well yes it is named Type 214 but is also generically called as U-214 as German subs have been referred to as U-Boats since WW2.

    The Indian Navy is now on the look out for six next-generation submarines in a project worth over Rs 30,000 crore. These six diesel-electric submarines built in India under Project-75I, will be equipped with air-independent propulsion boosting their operational capabilities and will have high degree of stealth, land-attack capability and ability to incorporate futuristic technologies. RFI has been issued to Rosoboronexport, French (Armaris), HDW and other firms, two rounds of discussions have already taken place. The RFP or global tender will be issued in late-2008 or early-2009. This has been revised to 2010, with deliveries beginning from 2017, after the last Scorpene has been delivered.

    A total of six subs in this class are planned with 3 being SSBN's and 3 being SSN's. The 3rd ATV is planned for induction around 2016-17, so we will atleast have 3 of not more, plus the 2 Akula's.

    The Kilo's are not retiring anytime soon. The first was inducted around 1986 and the last in 2000. We have subs still running from the 1960's such as the Foxtrot's, which will be retired soon.The older Kilo subs have already gone through their mid-life refit and are expected to serve atleast till 2020.

    Definitely. We should wait until we get the Scorpene's and then talk, though it is better to talk once the deal is signed rather than keep talking before anything is official. :azn: However, it is a fact that the Agosta 90 Class subs were succeeded by the Scorpene Class subs.

    If you do need links for any of this info please let me know. :cheers:
     
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  14. garibnawaz

    garibnawaz SENIOR MEMBER

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    Planning does not mean they will achieve it. It is very crucial that the first ATV gets out and completes its sea trails as expected by 2012. If that is a success then and then only IN will move ahead with construction of more ATV's apart from the 2 that you have mentioned. If the first ATV commissioning is delayed then the rest will be delayed as well.

    In order to achieve that they need finalize the deal (for Project 75B) this year. The Scorpene the deal was done in 2005. First Scorpene is expected by 2012 ( 7 years after the deal) where as the 6th (last) is expected by 2017.

    By this law even if the deal for Project 75B is done this year (which is not going to happen) we won't be having all 6 subs by 2020.

    Individual German submarines are named as U-xxx (not to confuse with penant numbers) not their classes. U-xxx is basially the name just as INS - XXXXX

    For example Type-212 in German service are named as U-31 (S-181), U-32 (S-182) ,U-33 (S-183) ,U-34 (S-184), U-35 (S-185) and U-36 (S-186).

    The S numbers in bracket are penant numbers just like IN subamrine penant numbers. INS Sindhugosh is S-55.

    RFP has been issued. Not that DCN has any submarine to offer. As I mentioned only HDW (Type-214) and Amur class subs are offer.

    Please understand the difference between RFP and actual stuff offered.

    Planned. Please see the earlier info that I have mentioned in the same post. Nobody is fighting over the number and induction of Akula's. I am debating on 5-6 ATV's by 2020.

    The foxtrot story.

    Kalvari S23 (08 December 1967) - decommissioned on 31 May 1996Khanderi S22 (06 December 1968) - decommissioned on 18 October 1989
    Karanj S21 (04 September 1969) - decommissioned on 01 August 2003
    Kursura S20 (18 December 1969) - decommissioned on 27 September 2001
    Vagir S41 (03 November 1973) - decommissioned on 07 June 2001
    Vagsheer S43 (26 December 1974) - decommissioned on 30 April 1997

    The only two foxtrot in service INS Vela (1973) and INS Vagli (1974) are used as technology demonstrator for ATV and for training. They are no use at the time of war.

    Kilo's will be phased out as per their life cycle. First in first go out. Typically a diesel sub's life is 25 years which can be extended to 30 years by refit.

    My point to wait till the subs are commissioned is to observe the changes/additions which will be made by the time the sub is commisioned. Just like we did with MKI's. We signed something and we got a lot better (Co-operation with French and Israeli's).

    True but then whats the major differences between the two subs that you wish to indicate?

    GB
     
  15. ironman

    ironman SENIOR MEMBER

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    DCNS, he supplier of the six new frigates recently joining the Singapore Navy has a massive presence at IMDEX. Among the company's leading product in the region are the Scorpene medium-size submarines, the most recent sub was delivered to the Malaysian Navy earlier this year. Six submarines are currently under construction for India.

    According to DCNS, the Scorpene submarines represents the state of the art in submarine design and construction and benefits from the latest technologies developed for nuclear-powered classes operated by the French Navy, particularly as regards acoustic discretion and combat system performance. Excellent endurance makes these submarines among the few medium-displacement designs suitable for extended ocean patrol duties.

    DCNS is also displaying the Andrasta, a compact submarine designed to operate in coastal waters, a theatre of growing importance to all maritime nations. A direct descendant of the Scorpene, this class offers stealth, agility and power.

    For Navies with requirements for ocean going submarines, DCNS is proposing the SMX-24 - a long-range, ocean-going conventional propulsion submarine (SSK) with an excellent payload capability. The modular design can be reconfigured to optimize for specific missions each navy defines. The mission profile ranges from special operations to massive land strikes, in addition to the usual missions assigned to ocean-going SSKs, which is to say, attacks against enemy naval forces and fleet protection, both of which require significant anti-surface and anti-submarine warfare capabilities.

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