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Tank131

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The reality is that to make a high quality ship you need to have an idea what you want its role to be a design it to fulfill that role effectively from the ground up. Because PN has been the step child of the military, it has been given scraps with which to make a defensive force. BUT for the first time in its history it made a good call to go out and get the design rights and sales rights tona successful program and contract the building/design company to help with modifications. All thats left to be seen is what they call as their requirements. To be honest, tonnage, while important is not the end all be all. There are plenty of smaller ships the punch way above their weight class in offense, and defense.

Examples
1. Buyan-M corvette: 949t. 4300km range. Crew of 52. 100mm cannon, 2 AK-630-M2 dual cannons, 1 Panstir-M (which has 2 rotary ciws cannons and 8 hermes-K 20km missiles), 8 igla missiles AND 8 Kalibr AShM/LACM

2. Sa'ar 6 corvette: 1900t. 7400km range. 2 typhoon stations for 30mm RCWS, 76mm cannon, 16 Gabriel V AShM (400km), 32 Barak 8 (70-100km SAM), C-Dome with 40 Tamir Interceptors (17km).

3. Steregushchiy class corvette. 1800t. 7000km range. Crew 90. 8 Kh-35 AShM (300). 12 cells for quad packed S-350 REDUT SAMs (40-120km range depending on missile used) for 48 SAMs. Kashtan and AK-630 CIWS.

4. Hamina Class FAC: 250T. 1000km range. Crew 26. 4 RBS-15 mk2 (AShM), 8 Umkhonto-IR-blk2 (15km), 57mm Cannon.

So for PN having the design is all well and good, but what they need is a proper utilization of space and a discerning eye for the systems they are integrating.

For Jinnah Class, PN gets to design it and given its likely enlarged footprint, PN should try take full advantage of its space. With that in mind if Jinnah will be the workhorse of the navy, PN will need to pattern if as an enlarged equivalent to Sa'ar 6 which in my opinion is the most heavily armed per ton ship in the world. That is that it needs to utilize its space very well.

To me that means going and getting Sylver A-50 or developing a VLS System with Turkey which would allow for quadpacking the CAMM-ER and possibly incorporating HQ-9. 32 cells with 24 HQ-9 and 32 quad packed CAMM-ER. Additionally there should be accommodations for 12 heavy AShM (mix of CM-302 and Harbah (6 and 6). Then a 24 cell FL-3000N and 2 Gokdeniz CIWS. FL-3000N and Gokdeniz need to be tied into autonomous fire control system much like C-dome, to allow for rapid and automated engagement of missiles that made it past CAMM-ER.
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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The reality is that to make a high quality ship you need to have an idea what you want its role to be a design it to fulfill that role effectively from the ground up. Because PN has been the step child of the military, it has been given scraps with which to make a defensive force. BUT for the first time in its history it made a good call to go out and get the design rights and sales rights tona successful program and contract the building/design company to help with modifications. All thats left to be seen is what they call as their requirements. To be honest, tonnage, while important is not the end all be all. There are plenty of smaller ships the punch way above their weight class in offense, and defense.

Examples
1. Buyan-M corvette: 949t. 4300km range. Crew of 52. 100mm cannon, 2 AK-630-M2 dual cannons, 1 Panstir-M (which has 2 rotary ciws cannons and 8 hermes-K 20km missiles), 8 igla missiles AND 8 Kalibr AShM/LACM

2. Sa'ar 6 corvette: 1900t. 7400km range. 2 typhoon stations for 30mm RCWS, 76mm cannon, 16 Gabriel V AShM (400km), 32 Barak 8 (70-100km SAM), C-Dome with 40 Tamir Interceptors (17km).

3. Steregushchiy class corvette. 1800t. 7000km range. Crew 90. 8 Kh-35 AShM (300). 12 cells for quad packed S-350 REDUT SAMs (40-120km range depending on missile used) for 48 SAMs. Kashtan and AK-630 CIWS.

4. Hamina Class FAC: 250T. 1000km range. Crew 26. 4 RBS-15 mk2 (AShM), 8 Umkhonto-IR-blk2 (15km), 57mm Cannon.

So for PN having the design is all well and good, but what they need is a proper utilization of space and a discerning eye for the systems they are integrating.

For Jinnah Class, PN gets to design it and given its likely enlarged footprint, PN should try take full advantage of its space. With that in mind if Jinnah will be the workhorse of the navy, PN will need to pattern if as an enlarged equivalent to Sa'ar 6 which in my opinion is the most heavily armed per ton ship in the world. That is that it needs to utilize its space very well.

To me that means going and getting Sylver A-50 or developing a VLS System with Turkey which would allow for quadpacking the CAMM-ER and possibly incorporating HQ-9. 32 cells with 24 HQ-9 and 32 quad packed CAMM-ER. Additionally there should be accommodations for 12 heavy AShM (mix of CM-302 and Harbah (6 and 6). Then a 24 cell FL-3000N and 2 Gokdeniz CIWS. FL-3000N and Gokdeniz need to be tied into autonomous fire control system much like C-dome, to allow for rapid and automated engagement of missiles that made it past CAMM-ER.
I had thought along those lines, but after thinking about it, I noticed something. For a lot of its ships, the PN could be emphasizing the need for endurance more so than packing weapons.

Basically, the FAC(M)/Azmat-class, F-22P, etc, weren't meant to stay near the shore, but rather, they were to operate at sea for extended periods of time. So, to us observers, these designs seemed inefficient from an armament view, but they actually achieved their intended goals (sea policing in peacetime, and 'enough' A2/AD capability via AShW and ASW in wartime).

However, I think the PN could be changing its approach. When it acquired the FAC(M) and F-22P, it never really paid attention to the idea of an OPV (i.e., a dedicated design for sea-policing and other peacetime naval roles). However, with the Damen OPVs in the pipeline, the PN could be steering towards those smaller, but heavily 'packed' surface warships.

I think this was the intended goal of the Babur-class corvette when the PN picked the MBDA CAMM-ER; it knew that there was a way to quad-pack the missile. Unfortunately, it couldn't get the SYLVER VLS, but the PN is likely hopeful -- or even confident -- that an alternative VLS with quad-packing will emerge to fill the void. So, once you get quad-packing, then suddenly the Babur-class and Jinnah-class can carry a lot of SAMs, for example.

Likewise, we might see the PN refocus on small and stealthy FACs. The short-legged MRTP-33 wouldn't have done much from a sea policing standpoint. But now that the PN has OPVs on order, it can revisit the idea of a 300-400-ton FAC with an emphasis on speed and firepower, but at the cost of endurance and range. It doesn't need range and endurance now.
 

Tank131

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I had thought along those lines, but after thinking about it, I noticed something. For a lot of its ships, the PN could be emphasizing the need for endurance more so than packing weapons.

Basically, the FAC(M)/Azmat-class, F-22P, etc, weren't meant to stay near the shore, but rather, they were to operate at sea for extended periods of time. So, to us observers, these designs seemed inefficient from an armament view, but they actually achieved their intended goals (sea policing in peacetime, and 'enough' A2/AD capability via AShW and ASW in wartime).

However, I think the PN could be changing its approach. When it acquired the FAC(M) and F-22P, it never really paid attention to the idea of an OPV (i.e., a dedicated design for sea-policing and other peacetime naval roles). However, with the Damen OPVs in the pipeline, the PN could be steering towards those smaller, but heavily 'packed' surface warships.

I think this was the intended goal of the Babur-class corvette when the PN picked the MBDA CAMM-ER; it knew that there was a way to quad-pack the missile. Unfortunately, it couldn't get the SYLVER VLS, but the PN is likely hopeful -- or even confident -- that an alternative VLS with quad-packing will emerge to fill the void. So, once you get quad-packing, then suddenly the Babur-class and Jinnah-class can carry a lot of SAMs, for example.

Likewise, we might see the PN refocus on small and stealthy FACs. The short-legged MRTP-33 wouldn't have done much from a sea policing standpoint. But now that the PN has OPVs on order, it can revisit the idea of a 300-400-ton FAC with an emphasis on speed and firepower, but at the cost of endurance and range. It doesn't need range and endurance now.
Well with the F-22P you are for sure correct, in that the range is 7400km (same as the much smaller Sa'ar 6. That said Ada is 6500km (much smaller than smaller vessels). Azmat is between the Hamina and the Buyan-M and its range is similarly in the middle at 1900km. I wonder why the Ada (and likely by extension, the Baburs) are less fuel efficient.. But needless to say, i think if we note the ranges of the above vessels, we can see that the ranges are far superior with better weapons loadouts than other similar ships and the larger ships PN has fielded thus far. I think that the PN should focus more on survivability than worry about ultimate range. What good is the range if you get the whe fleet sunk in 3 days of full out war? I hope they will take your suggested approach of weapons loadouts. I look FREMM (of egypt) and Shivalik and they are under gunned for their sizes. And with CAMM-ER their is so much potential given its performance and range. Tying that into an integrated layered defense (camm-er to FL-3000N to Gokdeniz) will make for a surperbly powereful ship that will outgun many larger ships if given the weapons and hopefully sensors.
 

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I know that this is going to hurt and make a lot of people angry, but I dont like the big focus on surface ships especially so many frigates for a country with a tiny coastline. Dont get me wrong we still need a navy but should have focused more on Corvettes like the Yarmook class. We dont need to fight wars 4000km+ away. In my opinion PN has choosen the wrong strategy. Should have had more focus on asymmetric capabilities with A2/AD in mind. Others can of course disagree.

We need to protect our shipping in Arabian Sea and its surrounding waters. Corvettes can do that job fine we dont need 10+ frigates for that job.

The Indian Navy will be among the top 5 largest navies in the world by tonnage in 2030. Let that sink in for a moment. In any confrontation with the IN the PN needs asymmetric methods. Our surface fleet will not last long. Our coastline is tiny which makes them very vulnerable to IN and IAF strikes.
i didn’t know that this type of mindset do exist.bro plz read some naval warfare books.there are tons of there.
 

Zarvan

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Super Falcon

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Pakistan Navy shown some interest to get Turk ZAHA amphibious assault vehicles for pak marines to operate near shores and Kutch region hover crofts don't have protection to operate direct at border neither small boats


Greatly enhances our marines requirements operational easyness and with TOT these can be manufactured cheaply too
 

monitor

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The delivery of 2 former Royal Netherlands Navy #Tripartite Class Minehunters to the Pakistan Navy is underway. The ships, HNLMS Middelburg (M858) & HNLMS Haarlem (M853), were loaded onto the UHL FAME on the 21st of Sep at the Port of #Zeebrugge, Belgium .
FeVTzbFXgAQ2cQK.jpeg
FeVPCLXXEAQ9mYF.jpeg


The transport ship, UHL FAME, is currently near Italy
🇮🇹
and heading for its next stop in Egypt
🇪🇬
. The transport ship will arrive in Pakistan
🇵🇰
by the end of October, and the minehunters will be commissioned into service by the subsequent month.
FeVQvl6WQAMjo4s.jpeg
 

Tank131

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These resemble Azmat class FAC. Likely a miniaturized (maybe 250-300t) version probably done with Swift Ships assistance. With STOP and STAMP-2 they should be highly effective for policing harbors, anti-narcotics and anti-piracy work. Based on the images, it should be large enough to even utilize scan eagle UAVs which would dramatically increase its situational awareness. I just hope the select a powerful engine which can push these to ~50knt

If they can shrink Azmat, they should be able to enlarge it too. Would like to see it pushed to a 1200t corvette with better air protection Type 1130 with 6 HQ-10 attached, a retractable helipad and sonar with torpedo tubes for anti-sub operations.
 
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ghazi52

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,.,.
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The delivery of 2 former Royal Netherlands Navy Tripartite Class Minehunters to the Pakistan Navy is underway. The ships, HNLMS Middelburg (M858) & HNLMS Haarlem (M853), were loaded onto the UHL FAME on the 21st of Sep at the Port of Zeebrugge, Belgium.
The transport ship, UHL FAME, is currently near Italy and heading for its next stop in Egypt. The transport ship will arrive in Pakistan by the end of October, and the minehunters will be commissioned into service by the subsequent month.

A minehunter is a naval vessel that seeks, detects, and destroys enemy naval mines. A minehunter uses an imaging sonar to detect and classify targets and then sends out divers or remotely operated vehicles to inspect and neutralize the threat.

Pakistan Navy already has three Tripartite Class (known as Éridan Class in France) minehunters acquired from France (locally known as Munsif Class). The Tripartite Class is a class of 630-tonne minehunters developed jointly by France, the Netherlands, and Belgium.

The ships in Pakistani service have Elesco MKR 400 acoustic sweep and MKR 960 magnetic sweeps for minesweeping duties. The ships have a range of 5,600 km and are armed with a 20 mm modèle F2 gun as a naval defense weapon and two 12.7 mm machine guns.

The Alkmaar Class is further upgraded with improved electronics, including Atlas Elektronik INCMS combat data system, Thales 2022 Mk III hull-mounted sonar, Atlas Seafox Mine Identification, and Disposal System, and a Double Eagle Mk III Mod 1 ROV.
 

Super Falcon

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The delivery of 2 former Royal Netherlands Navy #Tripartite Class Minehunters to the Pakistan Navy is underway. The ships, HNLMS Middelburg (M858) & HNLMS Haarlem (M853), were loaded onto the UHL FAME on the 21st of Sep at the Port of #Zeebrugge, Belgium .
View attachment 885037 View attachment 885038

The transport ship, UHL FAME, is currently near Italy
🇮🇹
and heading for its next stop in Egypt
🇪🇬
. The transport ship will arrive in Pakistan
🇵🇰
by the end of October, and the minehunters will be commissioned into service by the subsequent month.
View attachment 885040
Why just we go for new mine sweepers rather than these few decades old
 

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