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Pakistan is interested in turkish MILDEN submarine project.

Aryeih Leib

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Does that mean project hangor is facing trouble ? I know pakistan would receive them from 2023 but shouldn't the kneel laying been done I mean it takes about 4 yrs to make one submarine ....
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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From what I've read on reddit and on here. İt seems it is very hard for aircraft to penetrate cumulative force of a carrier group.

How does a pack of say 2-4 submarines perform against a carrier group?

Yeah that's correct and according to this infographic:
View attachment 707601
İt seems Milden is aimed at making a bigger, better more indigenous submarine. Designing the hull is a big deal. But equipping it with the requisite subsystems and armaments is even a bigger deal in my eyes and İ think shows Turkish defence industry growth from a grass root level. Something which we should learn from, instead of being stuck with eternal hiccups in form of HİT and POF.
The anti-sub aircraft are for maintaining a pervasive surveillance net over our seas and making it harder for enemy subs to operate in our EEZ and SLOC. I think both the IN and PN view their biggest naval threats coming from those fronts, hence the build-up.
Milden is based on german T 214 ?
No. The MILDEN is a separate program.
 

Ahmet Pasha

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The anti-sub aircraft are for maintaining a pervasive surveillance net over our seas and making it harder for enemy subs to operate in our EEZ and SLOC. I think both the IN and PN view their biggest naval threats coming from those fronts, hence the build-up.

No. The MILDEN is a separate program.
My question was more geared towards Fighter jet on an anti surface maritime mission vs a pack of submarines on a similar mission. Sorry İ didn't word it properly.

Your reply helps for sure tho.
 

ziaulislam

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The PN's interest in the MILDEN is likely in reference to finding a successor to the Agosta 90B in the 2030-2040 timeframe. The MILDEN is far out, so this is not a near-term thing.

Now, another question, who the heck wished for this? @JamD @Tank131 @Hassan Guy
PAF ..
PAK army needs to learn from the navy

Massive opptunties of JVs with co production and ToT are being missed
Does that mean project hangor is facing trouble ? I know pakistan would receive them from 2023 but shouldn't the kneel laying been done I mean it takes about 4 yrs to make one submarine ....
Hunger are already in production
This is 10-20 years from now planning to replace agosta 70s and agosta 90s
 

Zarvan

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The Milden project Submarine is more modern and comes with all these you mentioned and more. It has technology that no other Submarines have it is more modern and futuristic.


Photo Reveals Turkish Submarine Is First With New Capability

Turkey is emerging as a new player in the international submarine business. A Turkish Navy submarine was spotted passing through Istanbul on January 30 with new equipment. Trained eyes spotted an array of twelve white circles just above the waterline. This appears to be the business end of the locally developed Zargana anti-torpedo defense system.



The Zargana Countermeasure System has been developed by Aselsan to protect submarines from incoming torpedoes. It does this by launching salvos of acoustic 'deceptors' and 'jammers.' These are small torpedo-like objects which are launched from tubes under the submarine’s casing. The deceptors imitate the acoustic and movement characteristics of the targeted submarine. This misleads the torpedo into homing in on the wrong target. Meanwhile the jammers emit a broadband high-level noise that drowns out the operating frequencies of most acoustic (sonar) homing torpedoes. This sort of decoy system is known as ‘soft kill’ in defense circles.

This piece was on a forbes article that came out few months back.

Reis
Will it have VLS to carry 8 to 12 Cruise Missiles which have range of around 1800 KM. If yes then all well and good if not then no.
جب جیب خالی ہو تو ایسی عمدہ پن ڈبکیاں صرف خوابوں میں ہی اچھی لگتی ہیں
You have eight submarines on order plus 8 Frigates and Corvettes. So this empty pocket thing doesn't seem to be working.
Does that mean project hangor is facing trouble ? I know pakistan would receive them from 2023 but shouldn't the kneel laying been done I mean it takes about 4 yrs to make one submarine ....
Hangoor is doing fine. These Subs would be other then 8 from China. Pakistani plans are to have close to 20 subs in total. That is the minimum number. If our budget increases even this number could go much higher.

@Ahmet Pasha
 

That Guy

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We should forget light version of ATAK and go for the heavier one instead now. Milden is certainly a very interesting development. İf indeed it is coming from Mevlut Cavusoğlu's account and not some imposter.
Nah, Pakistan should ignore human defense corporations altogether, and go straight to the klingons for their cloaking technology.

Seriously, military planners don't make decisions on simple whims and wants, they make them based on needs and resource management.
 

Titanium100

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Will it have VLS to carry 8 to 12 Cruise Missiles which have range of around 1800 KM. If yes then all well and good if not then no.

You have eight submarines on order plus 8 Frigates and Corvettes. So this empty pocket thing doesn't seem to be working.

Hangoor is doing fine. These Subs would be other then 8 from China. Pakistani plans are to have close to 20 subs in total. That is the minimum number. If our budget increases even this number could go much higher.

@Ahmet Pasha
Yes. It would have these capabilities
 

Salza

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Bhai jaan now Pak Govt is in much better financial position so some projects may become reality.
After getting those 8 subs by 2028, Type 54As, Turkish Milgems, 10 lineage jets , I doubt there will be any money left/dedicated for PN before 2035
 

khansaheeb

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It is all part of Pak Navy strategy:-






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Aug 28, 2016Bilal Khan -
THIS WEEK IN REVIEW: PAKISTAN’S SUBMARINE PLANS ARE NOW IN MOTION
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Every weekend, Quwa will close the week’s news with a review and analysis with the aim to tie together several topics into broader themes. It is an opportunity to reflect upon and discuss issues in a way where key trends are identified and individual news topics are connected into a “bigger picture.”

Pakistan’s submarine plans are now in motion
On Friday, the Chief Project Director of the Pakistan Navy’s next-generation submarine program informed the National Assembly’s Standing Committee on Defence that the Navy would begin receiving its ships in 2022 and 2023. All eight submarines are expected to be delivered by the end of 2028.

In parallel with the Agosta 90B upgrade program (contracted to STM Turkey), the Pakistan Navy’s medium and long-term submarine fleet-building plans are finally in motion. This has been an objective for Pakistan since the mid-2000s when it embarked on finding a platform to replace its legacy (and now retired) DCNS Daphne diesel-electric submarines (SSK).

At the time, the Pakistan Navy sought the ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) Type 214 and DCNS Marlin. In 2008, it had selected the Type 214 and entered negotiations with Germany for the purchase of three submarines. Unfortunately, an economic crisis from 2009 and a resulting sharp drop in public funds available for big-ticket defence acquisitions caused the Type 214 deal to collapse.

With the Navy’s mainstay Hangor-class (i.e. Daphne) phased out, and two Hashmat-class (i.e. Agosta 70) heavily aged, the prospect of depending on only three Khalid-class (Agosta 90B) was not taken lightly in Pakistan’s defence planning circles. While the Pakistan Navy has not typically enjoyed the fiscal attention of its sister service arms (i.e. Army and Air Force), its conventional submarine and fast attack craft (FAC) fleets are pivotal anti-access and area denial (A2/AD) assets. In other words, the submarines were central to Pakistan’s goal of securing its coastlines and littoral (i.e. near the coast) waters from enemy attacks, which had proven to be severely detrimental to its war effort in 1971.

While Pakistan’s long-term economic fortunes are far from secured, the desire for a strong submarine fleet was defined as a necessity. In 2011, Pakistan opened negotiations with China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Co. Ltd (CSOC) for six submarines equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems. The Government of Pakistan approved the acquisition of eight submarines in April 2015.

The specific make or model of the submarines was not disclosed, but many speculate it to be the CSOC S20, an export variant of the People Liberation Army Navy (PLAN)’s Type 039 and Type 041 Yuan-class conventional attack submarines. The S20 is lighter (with a displacement of 2,300-tons submerged versus the Yuan’s 3,600-tons), though it is still equipped with six 533mm torpedo tubes, which could be used by anti-ship missiles as well as heavyweight torpedoes.

The S20 does not include AIP by default, but the customer could request and purchase it separately. Considering that the Pakistan Navy officially confirmed that Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works (KSEW) had secured a contract to produce four “next generation AIP submarines,” it is likely that Pakistan’s submarines (S20 or otherwise) will be equipped with AIP. AIP is a force-multiplier feature in that it will enable Pakistan’s submarines to stay submerged without snorkeling for weeks at a time. This essentially makes the submarine a very quiet threat, even in shallow waters – thus a critical defensive A2/AD asset. As with the submarine itself, the technology behind Pakistan’s AIP selection has not been disclosed, though it is worth noting that China has had research and development programs in multiple AIP streams, including fuel cell-based propulsion. One may also speculate that Pakistan is sourcing a third-party AIP system. China does not seem to have an AIP system marketed for export (at least yet), and CSOC’s export-grade surface warships – e.g. the C28A and F-22P – do utilize propulsion systems from Germany’s MTU. However, no indications to either scenario (Chinese or a third-party AIP) have been given.

Financial Times reported that the deal was valued at $4 to $5 billion U.S., but to date, no officially verified figure has been provided. That said, Express Tribune, citing unnamed foreign ministry sources, reported that the purchase would be financed through four installments. The Financial Times’ figure is surprisingly steep, especially considering that Thailand had been offered three S20 diesel-electric submarines for $1 billion U.S. While Pakistan’s submarines will be AIP-equipped, the cost difference is very high, especially if Pakistan’s forthcoming submarines are also based on the S20. Officially, the price has yet to be disclosed.

The expected induction period – i.e. twelve years for all eight submarines – was received with surprise in some circles. It is worth remembering that Pakistan’s Agosta 90B deal took five years (1994-1999) before the first submarine, the PNS Khalid, was delivered to Pakistan. The third and final boat, PNS Hamza, was commissioned in 2008, a full 14 years after Pakistan signed the submarine contract with France. There is nothing abnormal with the induction schedule.

By 2028, Pakistan’s first Agosta 90B – PNS Khalid – will be close to thirty years of age. At that point, the Pakistan Navy will need to consider a successor to this venerable platform, which had introduced AIP to not only Pakistan but also South Asia. The post-Agosta phase is worth watching. The Pakistan Navy could build upon its ties with China and in turn, pursue a new batch of submarines from CSOC. Alternatively, one could potentially see Turkey and its MILDEN (National Submarine) program be of interest, especially in light of the recent climb in Turkish and Pakistani defence relations.
 

mudas777

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جب جیب خالی ہو تو ایسی عمدہ پن ڈبکیاں صرف خوابوں میں ہی اچھی لگتی ہیں
When you are hungry reality hits home and then you are more wiser and more determined and strive more at the things which you missed out on.
Now we are aiming at better and sophisticated things instead of number game. So enjoy your dreams and پن ڈبکیاں.
 

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