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Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

mingle

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It'll be political suicide for any PM to agree to making the LOC a permanent border. China, under Xi, is likely to exert considerable pressure against such a move. I agree that a best case scenario would be Musharraf's four point plan.
Formula which both vajpiye and Mush agreed
 

Irfan Baloch

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Again we are looking at a PROJECTwhich is 8-10 years away from fruition. Unless you are looking at getting the production plant the Turks will cater to tbeir own needs first. So add another 5 years . If the truth be told if you are willing to wait 15 years cor the Turkish project why not build your own? The last I checked the 2 biggest hurdles might have been theTurkish engine which unless it is totally indegenous could be at the whims of the provider of parts. Pakistan's dire finqncial situation will not allow it to run 2 such projects so it will either be Azm or TFX. Given tbe choice and the timelines wbat would posters choose?
A
Rolls Royce might be chosen for producing the Turkish TFX engine. the Turks are not Banned as comprehensively as Pakistan is from the Western technology so they do have options from other western companies in addtion to their own program but like you mentioned its an irrelevant discussion and Turks will cater for themselves first before producing a watered down export version(only if the project goes in line with the budget and the time line).
if Pakistan is cleared by America to procure the phased out F 16s from the world air forces that are replacing them with F-35 then PAF can buy some time for the Chinese or Turkish 5th generation jets to reach the serial production stage .
 

Ghessan

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I believe US will enforce Mush formula what him and Vajpaee agreed was acceptable by both sides
regime in India is not what it was at the time of Musharraf, when Musharraf shake hand with Vajpayee post Kargil those people sitting in their parliament were not that ignorant, since then US-India relationship has crossed many milestones, Sept 11 is gone when the will in US was at high point.

yes i agree current regime in US is skeptical of Indian stances at several maters, India has few strong cards to play, i don't see a chance.
 

Shabi1

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@Yasser76

IMO ...

Washington will normalize Indo-Pak relations and make the LoC a permanent border so India can focus on China. In return, Pakistan will get to flush India's influence in Afghanistan, and be the primary caretaker of Afghanistan moving forward.

US arms aside, I think we'll see a conversation about Pakistan building a noticeable presence in Afghanistan.

Everything from the ISI returning to Kabul to Pakistani aircraft flying overhead is going to be on the cards. Basically, whatever it takes for (1) Pakistan to feel secure, but (2) without hurting the Indians.

It's not so much about giving India hegemony, but to simply split South Asia into halves, and give one half to Pakistan (the west) and the other to India (east). That split is a border in Kashmir.

In return, the US can remove its forces out of the region yet still maintain influence in Afghanistan (via Pakistan).

This 'tweak' actually makes Pakistan's growing ties with Turkey a lot more logical now. The US can use Turkey to funnel whatever Pakistan needs (esp. US-origin technologies). So, the T129, the LM2500-equipped MILGEMs, the GE-equipped TFX, etc, does make sense under this framework.
LOC as permanent border would have been acceptable couple of years back but such a move now will be pure genocide on IOK side. India shot themself in the foot with their RSS antics. Indian businesses are actually very competitive and rivaling western ones, now with the EU disinfo thing being out, won't be surprised if someone brings up human rights and Kashmir related sanctions to protect western markets.

Army knows it shouldnt involve itself in someone elses war, else we had alot to gain from going to Yemen. Moeed Yousufs latest interview is clear that Pakistan will only get parties discussing and facilitate economic trade related issues. Peace in Afghanistan is upto the Afghans themself only. If we interfere again like we did in past when it fails we will again be the escape goat and Pakistan will not let that happen again.
 

ARMalik

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If Pakistan ever buys these F-16s ever again from the US, it will once again signal that Pakistan's Military Establishment has once again thrown itself at the feet of the US. And by doing this, it will loose ALL ITS ALLIES INCLUDING CHINA. Lets see if this time the decisions are made for National Sovereignty or for continuation of Corruption once again.
 

RadarGudumluMuhimmat

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It is irrelevant but I think the articles are mixed. According to the latest news, Rolls Royce will develop a new engine with TRMotor, provided that the RR-Kale partnership is excessive. It is certain that the first blocks of TFX will be equivalent to F15EX because TEI CEO said yesterday that production of F110 will be start again.
Though Pakistan uses PW on its F 16's, it might make more sense for AZM.
 
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Shabi1

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If Pakistan ever buys these F-16s ever again from the US, it will once again signal that Pakistan's Military Establishment has once again thrown itself at the feet of the US. And by doing this, it will loose ALL ITS ALLIES INCLUDING CHINA. Lets see if this time the decisions are made for National Sovereignty or for continuation of Corruption once again.
Chances are eventually we will follow what we did with Mirages and there is nothing wrong with that.

Buy used airframes if available to cover attrition or for parts and upgrade the ones we have. If relations improve we can perhaps even further our maintenance infrastructure for keeping them flying as long as we can.

What you are saying happens when you buy with severe strings attached, F-16s are not F-35s so that wont happen.
 

Shabi1

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We cant replicate what we did with the Mirages to the F-16s as we cant rebuild the Falcons at Kamra.
There was a time Pakistan couldn't rebuild Mirages too. As I said if relations prohibit F-16 maintenance infrastructure could be enhanced too. Till then it would be outsourced job.
In my own opinion Pakistan will like to continue to operate F-16s even after most operators retire it.
 

Yasser76

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If, as many are now implying, USAF orders F-16V it gives PAF greater imperative to go down this route, as widespread support for F-16 will pretty much be assured for next 30 years.

Greece, Taiwan, Bahrain, Bulgaria, South Korea, Indonesia, Morrocco and Singapore all going for the V and the USAF.

If we only ever make one more purchase from US it should be V uprgades, and 40 more Vipers.
 

mingle

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regime in India is not what it was at the time of Musharraf, when Musharraf shake hand with Vajpayee post Kargil those people sitting in their parliament were not that ignorant, since then US-India relationship has crossed many milestones, Sept 11 is gone when the will in US was at high point.

yes i agree current regime in US is skeptical of Indian stances at several maters, India has few strong cards to play, i don't see a chance.
If, as many are now implying, USAF orders F-16V it gives PAF greater imperative to go down this route, as widespread support for F-16 will pretty much be assured for next 30 years.

Greece, Taiwan, Bahrain, Bulgaria, South Korea, Indonesia, Morrocco and Singapore all going for the V and the USAF.

If we only ever make one more purchase from US it should be V uprgades, and 40 more Vipers.
I will love 36 new 34 used with V upgrades 150-160 a great fleet
 

FuturePAF

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Chances are eventually we will follow what we did with Mirages and there is nothing wrong with that.

Buy used airframes if available to cover attrition or for parts and upgrade the ones we have. If relations improve we can perhaps even further our maintenance infrastructure for keeping them flying as long as we can.

What you are saying happens when you buy with severe strings attached, F-16s are not F-35s so that wont happen.
Also, more importantly to China will be Pakistan developing deeper economic relations with the US, so Pakistan can support its own economic development and have funds to develop further projects as part of CPEC; railways, motorways, power plants, dams, etc.

China isn’t against Pakistan having a robust relation with the US, they just don’t want it to be at the expense of China. Pakistan has signaled, through Moeed Yusuf’s interview that it won’t be in anyone’s camp, especially not against the other power.
 

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