Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[denel]

@denel,

Pakistan never knew how to work the US to its advantage---. No pakistani general or leader tried to learn how to talk to the americans and what we see is the result of that.

After 9/11 US presented itself to pakistan on a patter---and the pakistanis fckd up worst than bad---.

The second chance was Yemen war---. I never wrote openly---but most of you guys thought the intervention would for fighting---. Maybe some fighting to show your commitment---but more so of power positioning and let the saudi military take the brunt---and pak military stayed behind and provided more of a logistical / tactical support and presence and possibly act as a peace maker---while strengthening its military position at the expense of the GCC---.

The Yemen war crisis would have been a game changer for pakistan to build its strength economically and militarily---but many a minds only thought of killings---which could have been avoided to a large extent.

Form being in a position of a " POWER BROKER " pakistan is back to be in a state of eternal confusion---.

I would second your thoughts. For the US, there was no strategic engagement - it was just what was consequential after effect.

I would continue to disagree with you in Yemen - Why do you want Pak forces to participate in genocide dictated by the manical Salman. That man has blood on his hands of the innocent. Sorry my friend, there is a line to draw and I am glad that Pak chose not to go in with these hyenas. True it affects financially; but I ask is the blood of innocent children and women this donkey Salman has taken justifiable. It is not.

Pak needs to take a stand and it did - by not supporting genocide against fellow moslems. That too by a family proclaiming itself as Custodian of Holy places.

 

[Trailer23]

FYI: It (still) does not exist...

@Hodor @Raider 21 @airomerix

 

[MastanKhan]

I would second your thoughts. For the US, there was no strategic engagement - it was just what was consequential after effect.

I would continue to disagree with you in Yemen - Why do you want Pak forces to participate in genocide dictated by the manical Salman. That man has blood on his hands of the innocent. Sorry my friend, there is a line to draw and I am glad that Pak chose not to go in with these hyenas. True it affects financially; but I ask is the blood of innocent children and women this donkey Salman has taken justifiable. It is not.

Pak needs to take a stand and it did - by not supporting genocide against fellow moslems. That too by a family proclaiming itself as Custodian of Holy places.

Hi,

Yemen was british east india compnay moment for pakista first of all.

An age old adage holds true to this day keep your boundaries farthest away from your capital. Keep your outposts farthest and build and build you military posts at tactical and strategic points.

Setting foot in yemen with the permission of the USA and Britain---pakistan's position woulad have changed tactically---. It would have another vantage point against its arch enemy and a large force at disposal---.

DSoes the US military wooried that a few thousand american troops would die in skirmishes---no. It rather looks at issues keenly and finds way to BLOOD ITS SOLDIERS---.

Just look at the golden years of muslim rule---. No one sat in their mosques to pray 5 times a day---but the young men joined the military for foreign conquest---.

But why would the crisis in Yemen would turn as bloody as it is today---. Pak military would not have let that happen.

Instead of having around 150 K troops in the GCC with full military might---pakistan's power position has shrivelled to a miniscule---.

When yemen the houthis decided to play the tune of the iranians---they sign on their own death warrant---. There is no genocide in yemen.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Hi,

Yemen was british east india compnay moment for pakista first of all.

An age old adage holds true to this day keep your boundaries farthest away from your capital. Keep your outposts farthest and build and build you military posts at tactical and strategic points.

Setting foot in yemen with the permission of the USA and Britain---pakistan's position woulad have changed tactically---. It would have another vantage point against its arch enemy and a large force at disposal---.

DSoes the US military wooried that a few thousand american troops would die in skirmishes---no. It rather looks at issues keenly and finds way to BLOOD ITS SOLDIERS---.

Just look at the golden years of muslim rule---. No one sat in their mosques to pray 5 times a day---but the young men joined the military for foreign conquest---.

But why would the crisis in Yemen would turn as bloody as it is today---. Pak military would not have let that happen.

Instead of having around 150 K troops in the GCC with full military might---pakistan's power position has shrivelled to a miniscule---.

When yemen the houthis decided to play the tune of the iranians---they sign on their own death warrant---. There is no genocide in yemen.

Pakistan's power position will be fine but why didn't you go and offer your services and those of your kids to the cause?

 

[monitor]

One of first F-16s of #Pakistan Airforce #PAF in flight over Florida before delivery. (Circa 1980s)

11:16 PM · Oct 23, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

3
Retweets

 

[MastanKhan]

Pakistan's power position will be fine but why didn't you go and offer your services and those of your kids to the cause?

"

Sultan Salahuddin Ayubi was told by his spies
There is a religious scholar who speaks very well, has become very popular among the people.
Sultan said say it forward
Spy said ′′ something is wrong we are feeling but can't explain in words ′′
The Sultan said, ′′ Tell me what you have seen and heard ′′
Spy said they say ′′ Jihad of self is superior, educating children is the best jihad, fighting for the responsibilities of the house is also a jihad.
If Sultan said, is there any doubt about it??
The detective said they have no doubt but the scholar says:
′′ What did you get from wars?? Only murders and dead bodies fell, wars either made you a murderer or a murderer ′′
Sultan rose restless, at the same time decided to meet the scholar, disguised the meeting and as soon as he left, he asked, ′′ Sir, tell me a recipe that Bait ul Muqaddas can be free and the atrocities against Muslims can be abolished without war??" We are going to have a good
The scholar said pray
Sultan's face turned red with anger, he had thought that this scholar is more dangerous than the whole crusade army
Sultan first cut the finger of that scholar with his dagger, he started screaming badly.
Now the Sultan said, do you tell the truth or should I cut my neck too?
The Sultan found that his teaching was now common in sermons, it was very difficult to stop this mischief.
This mischief is still running through the whole water.
Why do people want to convert Islam into Buddhism? Whereas the clear fact is that without facing the oppressor, it is not possible that oppression can be recovered. "

 

[Aspen]

I think the time is now. If the Dems win, game is up for Pak anyways. So, PMIK could play this game:

1. Visit the US, get in touch with the Pak community, say good things about Trump
2. Offer a juicy trade deal "to help US industry". Trump loves to make deals.
3. Deal should be for say, 10 billion dollars (over an insane period of years, say 10 years). Buy US, x, y and z products, perhaps even steel. All these would essentially be useful for Pak and would be bought from other sources anyways. In return, get open license from Trump to purchase third party F-16s and get EDA.
As well as other NATO military gear. And get all the Afghan retreat equipment.
4. If PMIK riles up the Pakistanis for Trump, Trump is the kind of guy that doesn't forget a favour.
5. Pak target should be for an additional 100 F-16s - EDA, third party, doesn't matter where you get them from.

All this talk about waiting after the elections are by people who have no understanding of US politics.

Fully agree 100%, this is exactly what I would do if I was IK.

I think people on here often forget how bad Obama years were for Pakistan. Those 8 years of Democrats were worst years for Pakistan since TTP emerged. Terrorism in Pakistan was at its peak and Pakistan security situation was at its worst in decades under Obama years.

Trump has been excellent on some areas of foreign policy, withdrawing support for Kurds and aligning with Erdogan in Syria, North Korea meeting, and pulling out of Afghanistan/Iraq are amazing moves that were good for peace. He got US astronauts back into space and always called out corrupt media on their bullshit. The corrupt Wall Street mafia hated Trump because he always spoke openly on Twitter with no filter. It flew under radar of a lot of people when Trump said during the debate that there is no reason US needs to be hostile with Russia, peace is better for the world, of course, Democrats hate peace and they want to keep Russia as enemy of US for no reason, otherwise American people will wake up and realize that corrupt media, DC lobbyists, and corporate Democrats are the true enemy of American people. Trump was excellent for creating more American jobs. We may never have a President like Trump who had the balls to do stuff like that again and I'm gonna miss that a lot.

It's gonna suck so bad when establishment Democrats get elected under Biden and get back into bed with India like terrible Obama days.

Under Obama, US created mess in Syria and Libya, ISIS became huge threat to the world, and who can forget 2011 raid in Pakistan. Obama left a trail of destruction across the world. This is what we will get if we elect Biden. I also hate Obama's guts because I work in aerospace sector and Obama killed the Space Shuttle program that was important for my work. All Obama was good at was signing free trade deals that sold all our jobs overseas and throwing American people like me to the dogs. This is what Democrats will do. They put on fake smile and pretend to show empathy and fake tears while profiting from brutal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan massacring children with record number of drone strikes and looting the US economy with shitty healthcare and elite corporate mafias swimming in DC like sharks, and dining in expensive restaurants with AIPAC Israeli Zionist lobby while pretending to support Palestinians. Democrats are absolutely desperate to do anything to prevent Trump from pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan because then Democrats military cash cow will be gone and US will no longer be able to profit from killing Muslim children with drone strikes like under Obama. Corporate Democrats embody worst evil of humanity. Trump is nightmare for Democrats because he calls out their bullshit while all Democrats can do is play fake identity politics by pandering to LGBTQ and other fake genders.

 

[PakFactor]

"

Sultan Salahuddin Ayubi was told by his spies
There is a religious scholar who speaks very well, has become very popular among the people.
Sultan said say it forward
Spy said ′′ something is wrong we are feeling but can't explain in words ′′
The Sultan said, ′′ Tell me what you have seen and heard ′′
Spy said they say ′′ Jihad of self is superior, educating children is the best jihad, fighting for the responsibilities of the house is also a jihad.
If Sultan said, is there any doubt about it??
The detective said they have no doubt but the scholar says:
′′ What did you get from wars?? Only murders and dead bodies fell, wars either made you a murderer or a murderer ′′
Sultan rose restless, at the same time decided to meet the scholar, disguised the meeting and as soon as he left, he asked, ′′ Sir, tell me a recipe that Bait ul Muqaddas can be free and the atrocities against Muslims can be abolished without war??" We are going to have a good
The scholar said pray
Sultan's face turned red with anger, he had thought that this scholar is more dangerous than the whole crusade army
Sultan first cut the finger of that scholar with his dagger, he started screaming badly.
Now the Sultan said, do you tell the truth or should I cut my neck too?
The Sultan found that his teaching was now common in sermons, it was very difficult to stop this mischief.
This mischief is still running through the whole water.
Why do people want to convert Islam into Buddhism? Whereas the clear fact is that without facing the oppressor, it is not possible that oppression can be recovered. "

Sadly even Saladin had to face useless Liberals.

 

[Raider 21]

One of first F-16s of #Pakistan Airforce #PAF in flight over Florida before delivery. (Circa 1980s)

11:16 PM · Oct 23, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

3
Retweets

When I scanned it for some reason it came out black and white. I have the coloured version of this at home.

 

[Armchair]

Fully agree 100%, this is exactly what I would do if I was IK.

I think people on here often forget how bad Obama years were for Pakistan. Those 8 years of Democrats were worst years for Pakistan since TTP emerged. Terrorism in Pakistan was at its peak and Pakistan security situation was at its worst in decades under Obama years.

Trump has been excellent on some areas of foreign policy, withdrawing support for Kurds and aligning with Erdogan in Syria, North Korea meeting, and pulling out of Afghanistan/Iraq are amazing moves that were good for peace. He got US astronauts back into space and always called out corrupt media on their bullshit. The corrupt Wall Street mafia hated Trump because he always spoke openly on Twitter with no filter. It flew under radar of a lot of people when Trump said during the debate that there is no reason US needs to be hostile with Russia, peace is better for the world, of course, Democrats hate peace and they want to keep Russia as enemy of US for no reason, otherwise American people will wake up and realize that corrupt media, DC lobbyists, and corporate Democrats are the true enemy of American people. Trump was excellent for creating more American jobs. We may never have a President like Trump who had the balls to do stuff like that again and I'm gonna miss that a lot.

It's gonna suck so bad when establishment Democrats get elected under Biden and get back into bed with India like terrible Obama days.

Under Obama, US created mess in Syria and Libya, ISIS became huge threat to the world, and who can forget 2011 raid in Pakistan. Obama left a trail of destruction across the world. This is what we will get if we elect Biden. I also hate Obama's guts because I work in aerospace sector and Obama killed the Space Shuttle program that was important for my work. All Obama was good at was signing free trade deals that sold all our jobs overseas and throwing American people like me to the dogs. This is what Democrats will do. They put on fake smile and pretend to show empathy and fake tears while profiting from brutal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan massacring children with record number of drone strikes and looting the US economy with shitty healthcare and elite corporate mafias swimming in DC like sharks, and dining in expensive restaurants with AIPAC Israeli Zionist lobby while pretending to support Palestinians. Democrats are absolutely desperate to do anything to prevent Trump from pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan because then Democrats military cash cow will be gone and US will no longer be able to profit from killing Muslim children with drone strikes like under Obama. Corporate Democrats embody worst evil of humanity. Trump is nightmare for Democrats because he calls out their bullshit while all Democrats can do is play fake identity politics by pandering to LGBTQ and other fake genders.

Mark my words my friend, Trump is winning and will win the elections. Another no show for Pak foreign policy, sadly unable to capitalize on anything anywhere. Another decade of PAF trying to decide what to do with the F-16s...

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I am 44 now, but thank you for the young man compliment.

Try sticking to the debate on Chinese military tech innovation.

You are right about US destroying many countries but that is another argument. Pakistan's 500,000 strong world class army and nuclear weapons are the main reasons US tanks are not parked outside my ancestral village in Rawalpindi district.....

For Americans our army size and nukes mean nothing. they dont need to fight entire force.
they blind you silence you cripple your C&C and kill few thousands and send few hundred to take over.
there is simply nothing stopping them.


they are warriors and conquerors by design. their weapons are unmatched. F16s the design of the 70s. but are still among the best jets.

 

[MastanKhan]

For Americans our army size and nukes mean nothing. they dont need to fight entire force.
they blind you silence you cripple your C&C and kill few thousands and send few hundred to take over.
there is simply nothing stopping them.


they are warriors and conquerors by design. their weapons are unmatched. F16s the design of the 70s. but are still among the best jets.

Hi,

Thank you very much for that post.

The F16---one of the finest machines ever built---one of the finest war fighting machines on the face of this earth that no other enemy of the US has an answer to---and that machine is 50 years old.

The most beautiful, the most functional, the most utilitarian, the most lethal fighting machine that the man has ever built in a time where the technology is changing in leaps and bounds in years and yet after almost 5 decades---this machine still has its place in the top marvels of air defense air superiority and general weaponry---.

The americans wiped out a whole civilization of american indians without and ounce of remorse---they slaughtered the animal population and wiped out herds which would number in the 100's of thousand just for their animal skin---.

They have out done the killing of the mongols, the huns, the german and the other wannabees.

 

[Yasser76]

For Americans our army size and nukes mean nothing. they dont need to fight entire force.
they blind you silence you cripple your C&C and kill few thousands and send few hundred to take over.
there is simply nothing stopping them.


they are warriors and conquerors by design. their weapons are unmatched. F16s the design of the 70s. but are still among the best jets.

No one is denying how modern warfare is fought, or how good the F-16 is. Anyone will tell you that in order to occupy a country physically you need to capture and hold ground. This is my point. Even when invading Iraq, the US, with all it's sophisticated assets, still need to fight Iraqi Army on the ground. The Pakistan Army is not the Iraqi Army.

 

[Armchair]

American culture has degenerated. They are not what they used to be.

You can see that they are unable to design something that is a contemporary equivalent of the F16.

Anyone could kill of endless millions of native americans, there is no genius to it. Germany was mainly defeated by the Soviets.

America failed in Korea against a primitive China, whose army back then was far worse than Pakistan. They were beaten black and blue and sent home humiliated. Despite having endless allies.

Vietnam was another loss. Pakistanis need to get rid of the Macauley Syndrome and realize how strong they are.

Let us assume that the US sends its entire fleet to attack Pakistan. A single nuke would sink 80% of that fleet due to the nature of an underwater explosion.

The entire USN fighter component does not match PAF for numbers on even their largest deployment.

American bomber fleet is at its historic smallest.

A couple of hundred US soldiers taking over is a fantasy and a dream only of the most mentally defeated people. A colonized nation takes 40 years to overcome its mental domination but because the institions of the colonial order are alive and well in Pakistan, we are seeing this kind of mindset still.

Sad. The enemies of Pakistan reading this thread are laughing.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

No one is denying how modern warfare is fought, or how good the F-16 is. Anyone will tell you that in order to occupy a country physically you need to capture and hold ground. This is my point. Even when invading Iraq, the US, with all it's sophisticated assets, still need to fight Iraqi Army on the ground. The Pakistan Army is not the Iraqi Army.

we can leave this discussion for another thread.

coming back to discussion. I recall watching with video before we acquired the F 16 block 52 and I was praying that the sale does go through and they land in our air bases.

American culture has degenerated. They are not what they used to be.

You can see that they are unable to design something that is a contemporary equivalent of the F16.

Anyone could kill of endless millions of native americans, there is no genius to it. Germany was mainly defeated by the Soviets.

America failed in Korea against a primitive China, whose army back then was far worse than Pakistan. They were beaten black and blue and sent home humiliated. Despite having endless allies.

Vietnam was another loss. Pakistanis need to get rid of the Macauley Syndrome and realize how strong they are.

Let us assume that the US sends its entire fleet to attack Pakistan. A single nuke would sink 80% of that fleet due to the nature of an underwater explosion.

The entire USN fighter component does not match PAF for numbers on even their largest deployment.

American bomber fleet is at its historic smallest.

A couple of hundred US soldiers taking over is a fantasy and a dream only of the most mentally defeated people. A colonized nation takes 40 years to overcome its mental domination but because the institions of the colonial order are alive and well in Pakistan, we are seeing this kind of mindset still.

Sad. The enemies of Pakistan reading this thread are laughing.

in Korea alone they killed over 5 million. vietnam number is unknown. they nuked Japan twice despite Japan already willing to surrender. nothing could prevent them to nuke Vietnam or Korea as well. America remains the top most sought after place for scientists, innovators and researchers, whatever they are doing in places like area 51 are beyond our imagination. there is no dearth of abilities to produce world leading technologies.

as for their abilities to produce world class and world leading technologies is concerned, they are still on top. it is the Americans that have continued to keep the F-16s current to the modern day. they didnt need to duplicate a platform like that. the only closer larger cousin is the F-15.

lets leave that discussion for another thread about American war history