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Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

Viper27

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Well all these rumor MONGERING started when a X-Member on PDF called Khafee claimed, and still claims, that PAF was getting dozens and dozens of new and refurb F-16s from the US and this was ALL being done in SECRET. Even today on his website the discussion is about NEW F-16s landing in Pakistan as WE SPEAK !

I guess this is when some of the members just started making wild theories including the grave yard of Arizona. ONLY TIME WILL TELL if there is any truth to this or not.
If you’ve been following his posts you should have realised by now that he’s “landed” practically every jet in existence around the world apart from F-22 at a “secret” PAF airbase that no one knows about.
 

Blacklight

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If you’ve been following his posts you should have realised by now that he’s “landed” practically every jet in existence around the world apart from F-22 at a “secret” PAF airbase that no one knows about.
What I dont get is, why are people listening to him? There is only one base, from which Blk70/72's can operate due to TST.

What is that base's feedback?
So many people here claim insider knowledge, but no definitive clarity, why?
 

SQ8

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What I dont get is, why are people listening to him? There is only one base, from which Blk70/72's can operate due to TST.

What is that base's feedback?
So many people here claim insider knowledge, but no definitive clarity, why?
Part of it has to do with sources. Many folks rely on their chacha mama cousin drawing room or whatsapp links to ask things and then shoot it here. However, it is likely who they are asking might be in uniform or not but has no true idea themselves. An Army Tanker(not the DHA type :p ) is likely no better informed on the Jinnah Class than anyone else here looking at public information. Same way a PAF Casa sq pilot is not the best informed person on whether a J-10C is currently undertaking operational tests or not at Sargodha.
 

kursed

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We have lost a tank deal due to someone talking a bit too soon. A PN guy was CMed for talking on the open forum. So I am well aware of the dangers of open fora and loose talk. My advantage is I dont know anything at all, so I can, in true Pakistani fashion opine on anything and everything!!!!😆😅
A
PAF lost an HMD deal for the JF program, due to people disclosing information way too soon. Indians grabbed on to info, lobbied against it.

Loose lips, sink ships is as true today as it was before. There's a reason why PAF, PN, and now increasingly PA maintain strict silence around all deals, and you only see them materialize overnight. This is because they've been burnt a few times.
 
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Bratva

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PAF lost an HMD deal for the JF program, due to people disclosing information way too soon. Indians grabbed on to info, lobbied against it.

Loose lips, sink ships is as true today as it was before. There's a reason why PAF, PN, and now increasingly PA maintain strict silence around all deals, and you only see them materialize overnight. This is because they've been burnt a few times.
I remember someone disclosed that info here in PDF-Airforce section. His posts are still available. He disclosed Pakistan looking for french HMD.

@MiG-35-BD PAF will induct these prototypes of JF-17B, but these are mainly for export. Countries like Myanmar, Senegal and Nigeria need these for training purpose. This year PAC will produce 12 additional JF-17A Block IIs in supplement production so PAF will have 62 Block IIAs, Block III's final contract is about to be signed in a few weeks.
What I know about Block III, mentioned is the Thales Scorpion HMD, AESA Radar either from NRIET or J-10C's Wushi AESA. Block IIIB will be similar to this B prototype while Block IIIA will have redesigning. And good news is that the powerplant is not RD-93 (Not sure which one but will let you know soon).
You can't equate people disclosing info about HMD with deal being killed. As India had already signed Rafale deal with french and it was obvious they not gonna let PAF get their hands on HMD in any way.

Just as French didn't supply avionics for Block-2 because of Money, The HMD deal was killed because of Money. Indian Money, as simple as that.

PAF, PN, PA whenever relied on American, French or any Non-reliable resource. It always got burnt. It was denied AH-1z, Engines for turkish helicopters, F-16's. JF-17 block 2 avionics, HMD. Were these deals ever disclosed beforehand? No.

While Whatever PA, PN, PAF buys from Italy, china and turkey. They remain so tight lip about it that as if they are buying UFO's.These are the deals that will never be killed. And Irony is It is turkish and Italian or Chinese who inform Pakistani Public Pakistani that their armed forces are buying this kind of stuff.

You were one of the initials one who informed about J-10 C, does that deal get killed?

That Russian PANTSIR deal fell through, was it due to Loose lips sink ships?


One might say, UAE was actively working against pakistan and awarding modi with gold medals in 2019. Hence they leaked the news of F-16's and tried actively to kill the Pakistani Deal with Americans. You see other can play the devil's advocate as well. !
 
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Bratva

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What I dont get is, why are people listening to him? There is only one base, from which Blk70/72's can operate due to TST.

What is that base's feedback?
So many people here claim insider knowledge, but no definitive clarity, why?
Group Captain Noman Khan & Wing Commandar Hassan Sidduiqi are still flying block-15's while the Block-52's base where JF-17 Squadron will be moved or in process of getting moved not gonna be getting any Block 70/72 or V's either . So is someone gonna get more reliable than Noman and Hassan when they say there are no Block-70/72 landing/landed or will be landing in Pakistan and there are disinfo agents in the garb of Friends who are spreading disinfo and wants to kill any talks with America regarding this?

Edit: WC Noman Khan has been promoted to GC
 
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Bratva

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In the last 2yrs Hassan was out of Pak for 6mnths in on stretch and then a couple more mnths in another. Can you tell me where, and what, he was doing?
Did it result in a DSCA Notification for V upgrades for PAF F-16 or buying of new F-16?

Let me put it in another way. In last 2 years The visits of Hassan can easily be explained as it coincides with this timeline of


DECEMBER 20, 2019 4:01 AMUPDATED 2 YEARS AGO
U.S. to resume military training program for Pakistan: State Department

International Military Education and Training Program, or IMET - for more than a decade a pillar of U.S.-Pakistani military ties - underscores warming relations that have followed meetings this year between U.S. President Donald Trump and Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan.



But but Pakistan paid 150 Million for an enhanced TST program back in 2019 that coincide with Hassan and other PAF guys visit to America in the same time frame of 2019-2020.

*DRUM ROLE*.... There is an actual DSCA notification for Enhanced TST for PAF F-16

PAKISTAN – TECHNICAL SECURITY TEAM (TST) IN CONTINUED SUPPORT OF THE F-16 PROGRAM



And there is a strong chance... *Another DRUM ROLE* America complained to Pakistan about F-16 Misuse hence enhanced TST program for PAF F-16's
State Department Reprimanded Pakistan for Misusing F-16s, Document Shows

A State Department letter details American concerns about how Pakistan fielded fighter jets after a skirmish with India over Kashmir.

By Paul D. Shinkman
|
Dec. 11, 2019, at 5:54 p.m.
Thompson, a career military intelligence officer who first entered the administration as Vice President Mike Pence's national security adviser, admonished Pakistan in the letter for having "relocated, maintained and operated" the American made F-16s and the AMRAAM missiles they use from forward operating bases not approved under the original terms of the sale. The former Army colonel, who left the White House in September, also expressed concern at the access Pakistani officials allowed American weapons inspectors
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/a...-indias-revoking-of-special-status-in-context
"While we understand from you that these aircraft movements were done in support of national defense objectives," Thompson wrote in the letter, "the U.S. government considers the relocation of aircraft to non-U.S. government authorized bases concerning and inconsistent with the F-16 Letter of Offer and Acceptance."

"Such actions could subject sensitive U.S.-technologies to diversion to or access by third parties, and could undermine our shared security platforms and infrastructures," Thompson wrote.

A flare-up in military tensions between Pakistan and India began in mid-February, after a Pakistani militant group claimed credit for a suicide bombing in Kashmir that killed 40 Indian security personnel. India has consistently claimed that Pakistan uses militants to destabilize the region, which Pakistan and India have each claimed since they were separated by partition in 1947.

The subsequent tensions escalated as both countries deployed fighter jets, and in one dogfight an Indian plane was shot down. Its pilot landed in Pakistani territory and was imprisoned until his release in March. On Feb. 28, the Indian government presented evidence it says showed Pakistani jets fired AMRAAM missiles at the Indian planes.

The Pakistani armed forces possess 76 American-supplied F-16s – by far the most potent fighter jet in its military arsenal. Pakistan first began receiving the plane in 1982 and maintains them under strict rules imposed by the State Department, the Department of Defense and Congress. Among the rules are that Islamabad may only house the fighters and the corresponding American missiles on two specific air force bases at Mushaf and Shahbaz and that it only uses them for counter-terror operations, not against foreign countries.

The agreement for their sale and subsequent operation, governed in part by the State Department's Defense Security Cooperation Agency, also stipulates that American contractors and mechanics must have access to the jets at any time of day or night both to help maintain them and to monitor how the Pakistani military employs them.

The agency in July – weeks before Thompson's letter – re-approved the terms for these monitors, known as Technical Security Teams, at a cost of $125 million.
"This proposed sale will support the foreign policy and national security of the United States by protecting U.S. technology through the continued presence of U.S. personnel that provide 24/7 end-use monitoring," the agency wrote in a statement announcing the renewed contract, which must receive congressional approval.

Those who track aerial combat in the region and the weapons used for it aren't surprised that Pakistan would risk being caught violating its agreement with the U.S. when it regards an issue as hotly contested as Kashmir.

"Given how volatile the situation was, it was important for both sides not to lose face in getting their plane shot down," says Karl Kaltenthaler, a professor at the University of Akron. "It makes sense that Pakistan would do that, but it was at the potential cost of getting called out by the U.S. for using the weapons platform that way. For the Pakistanis, this is how they operate."
In her letter, Thompson raised concerns about American access to the bases and the U.S.-made equipment there. She said it had been four years since Office of Defense Representative–Pakistan – the office that carries out defense cooperation with partner countries – had been allowed to perform an assessment of the security vulnerabilities on the Pakistani bases.
These are the facts on ground Hassan or Noman will acknowledge with ease. You are welcome to verify the chain of events from them while they will be more than welcome to debunk those "Already Landed New/used/Block70-72/V-Upgrades of F-16 for PAF" by the disinfo agents who are trying hard to scuttle any new F-16 deal with America by leaking news so Pakistan enemies can lobby hard in advance to block any attempt from Pakistan
 

MastanKhan

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What I dont get is, why are people listening to him? There is only one base, from which Blk70/72's can operate due to TST.

What is that base's feedback?
So many people here claim insider knowledge, but no definitive clarity, why?
Hi,

Even after the news of the video game player leaking secrets---if you are still asking this question---then you don't seem to be too intelligent---clever thought you maybe.

Video game players were like most members on sinodef forum---know al lot but know nothing except for the few---.

The truth is here on the forum---. But you ought to have the intellect and the knowledge base to know and separate the fact from fiction---.

The truth won't be served on a platter---.
 

kursed

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@Bratva There was never a deal with the Americans for F-16s, the news that was doing rounds of this forum was concocted by some people who wanted to see how far it goes and who falls for it.

OTOH, the HMD deal I’m referring to had nothing to do with France. And it wasn’t France that killed the deal.

As for the 10C deal, by the time I talked about it, it was long debated, signed and decided for. No one is stopping it.

And this is what I think about leaks:

Everything that I opt to talk about is either already being talked about PAF brass itself, or they’re dropping hints about it all over the place.

I don’t discuss undisclosed stuff. Or things that they really want to hide.
 
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mingle

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PAF lost an HMD deal for the JF program, due to people disclosing information way too soon. Indians grabbed on to info, lobbied against it.

Loose lips, sink ships is as true today as it was before. There's a reason why PAF, PN, and now increasingly PA maintain strict silence around all deals, and you only see them materialize overnight. This is because they've been burnt a few times.
Make sense
 

StructE

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US nearing a formal agreement to use Pakistan's airspace to carry out military operations in Afghanistan - CNNPolitics

(CNN)The Biden administration has told lawmakers that the US is nearing a formalized agreement with Pakistan for use of its airspace to conduct military and intelligence operations in Afghanistan, according to three sources familiar with the details of a classified briefing with members of Congress that took place on Friday morning.
Pakistan has expressed a desire to sign a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) in exchange for assistance with its own counterterrorism efforts and help in managing the relationship with India, one of the sources said. But the negotiations are ongoing, another source said, and the terms of the agreement, which has not been finalized, could still change.

Well looks like Block 72 are still an option.
 

HRK

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US nearing a formal agreement to use Pakistan's airspace to carry out military operations in Afghanistan - CNNPolitics

(CNN)The Biden administration has told lawmakers that the US is nearing a formalized agreement with Pakistan for use of its airspace to conduct military and intelligence operations in Afghanistan, according to three sources familiar with the details of a classified briefing with members of Congress that took place on Friday morning.
Pakistan has expressed a desire to sign a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) in exchange for assistance with its own counterterrorism efforts and help in managing the relationship with India, one of the sources said. But the negotiations are ongoing, another source said, and the terms of the agreement, which has not been finalized, could still change.

Well looks like Block 72 are still an option.
It is related to the formalization of the facility already available to US, and formal agreement is necessary for the continuation of this facility.

As of now no agreement is reached and negotiation is still ongoing, as could be observed by the number of visits of US officials to Pakistan.
 

Blacklight

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Hi,

Even after the news of the video game player leaking secrets---if you are still asking this question---then you don't seem to be too intelligent---clever thought you maybe.

Video game players were like most members on sinodef forum---know al lot but know nothing except for the few---.

The truth is here on the forum---. But you ought to have the intellect and the knowledge base to know and separate the fact from fiction---.

The truth won't be served on a platter---.
Not after the truth, just letting some idiots expose themselves, all on their own.

After all time has a good habit of clearing things up.:D
 

Trailer23

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If you’ve been following his posts you should have realised by now that he’s “landed” practically every jet in existence around the world apart from F-22 at a “secret” PAF airbase that no one knows about.
I've already been ridiculed by certain individuals - so I got no reservations on speaking up.

Its quite ingenious, if you give it a thought. Everytime something starts lose momentum, you feed it a lil' extra just to keep going - further.
 
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Viper27

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What I dont get is, why are people listening to him? There is only one base, from which Blk70/72's can operate due to TST.

What is that base's feedback?
So many people here claim insider knowledge, but no definitive clarity, why?
Because hope is a dangerous thing. It makes one see stuff that isn’t there. Just like I always saw Iman Ali as my future wife. She ended up getting married on my birthday but I still refuse to lose hope. Same thing with the Block 70 rumours!
 

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