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Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

Blacklight

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The Block 60 was designed for the United Arab Emirates Air Force (UAEAF). It Based on the F-16C/D Block 50/52, A major difference from previous blocks is the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-80 Active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. The Block 60's General Electric F110-GE-132 engine is a development of the −129 model and is rated at 32,500 lbf (144 kN). The Electronic Warfare system includes the Northrop Grumman Falcon Edge Integrated Electronic Warfare Suite RWR together with the AN/ALQ-165 Self-Protection Jammer. Falcon Edge, which was developed by Northrop Grumman specifically for the Block 60, is capable of showing not only the bearing of any threat but also the range.

The MIL-STD-1553 data bus is replaced by MIL-STD-1773 fiber-optic data bus which offers a 1,000 times increase in data-handling capability. Like the F-35, the Block 60 F-16 has a built in FLIR/laser targeting system rather than using a dedicated pod that would occupy a hardpoint, increase drag and RCS.


These were basically the first F-16s to use AESA radars way back before F-16V. They were the pinnacle of F-16 models until the V came out and are still pretty close to that series. UAE almost upgraded then further to “Block 61” models but instead is going for 5th gens now.
1) They have been upgraded to Blk61

2) GCAS
 

Philip the Arab

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iLION12345_1

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Wrong. The Block 60s, to this day, are far more capable than any subsequent iterations of the Viper.
No. F-16V is more capable, I’m not aware of how deep the Block 61 modernization is but the block 60 predates F-16V by several years. Block 60 is from the early 2000s, F-16V is from the mid 2010s, the radar would not be the same, as mentioned above, but the avionics have been upgraded. I’m sure UAEs specific block 60/61s had some unique features but 15 years of tech gap isn’t easily covered even with an upgrade.
 
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WiderMan

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@StormBreaker Take the block 60 and add the changes that go into the 61. The Aesa on the block-60 is still a generation lower than what is on the block-70/72.

Essentially bringing the block-60 to block-72 standard in terms of avionics which derive from and are compatible with the F-35.
The Block 70/72s are literally souped up Block 50/52s. They are not the most advanced F-16s.
No. F-16V is more capable, I’m not aware of how deep the Block 61 modernization is but the block 60 predates F-16V by several years. Block 60 is from the early 2000s, F-16V is from the mid 2010s, the radar would not be the same, as mentioned above, but the avionics have been upgraded. I’m sure UAEs specific block 60/61s had some unique features but 15 years of tech gap isn’t easily covered even with an upgrade.

That's entirely false. The Block 60’s APG-80 is not a budget AESA, like the SABR or RACR. It has more TRMs, better cooling, significantly more peak power, better range, and not least a terrain following mode that works independently of other modes.
No. F-16V is more capable, I’m not aware of how deep the Block 61 modernization is but the block 60 predates F-16V by several years. Block 60 is from the early 2000s, F-16V is from the mid 2010s, the radar would not be the same, as mentioned above, but the avionics have been upgraded. I’m sure UAEs specific block 60/61s had some unique features but 15 years of tech gap isn’t easily covered even with an upgrade.


Oh, and the Block 61 upgrade fell through eons ago, so please stop bringing it up.
 
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iLION12345_1

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The Block 70/72s are literally souped up Block 50/52s. They are not the most advanced F-16s.



That's entirely false. The Block 60’s APG-80 is not a budget AESA, like the SABR or RACR. It has more TRMs, better cooling, significantly more peak power, better range, and not least a terrain following mode that works independently of other modes.




Oh, and the Block 61 upgrade fell through eons ago, so please stop bringing it up.
Ok sir, you must be right, and all the others here must be wrong. 2000s tech versus 2015 tech, surely 2000s tech is better.

I also didn’t claim Block 61 had happened, infact I said the opposite until a few other members corrected me. Go complain to them.
I’ll leave it there.
 

Trailer23

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@WiderMan @iLION12345_1
Gentlemen, before this turns into another historic [PDF] p!ssing contest - I took the liberty of searching for the appropriate answer..., by a former USAF Pilot*.

Hope it helps & that we come back on Earth with our ol' Block-15's & few Block-52's.

*Richard Crandall , former USAF F-111 and F-15E Pilot at U.S. Air Force (1980-1998)

The APG-80 is the AESA radar on UAE’s Block 60 F-16s while the APG-83 is a Scalable radar that is available to both older F-16s (Block 20 to 50) and the current Block 70 F-16.

The APG-83’s scalable design allows it to be integrated into all F-16s going back to Block 20 as in case of Taiwan. However, performance of a retrofitted APG-83 will be limited by the cooling capacity of the aircraft which was designed for a Mechanical radar. So APG-83 on older F-16s will have lower peak power and therefore, smaller range than APG-80 on Block 60 but its a major performance upgrade for the older F-16s flying with Mechanical radars.



However, it won’t be a problem for APG-83 on Block 70 as it’s a new airframe designed to accommodate the APG-83 radar at its full capacity. Both APG-83 on Block 70 and APG-80 on Block 60 should have very similar performance.

The APG-80 and APG-83 are from the same company (Northrop) that designed F-22 and F-35’s radar and use the same TRM technology (but not the same modules). I suspect the main difference between APG-80 and APG-83 will be in their Air-Ground modes, the APG-83 likely has better SAR resolution and use some of the ground target recognition algorithm in F-35’s radar.


-------------------------------------------

SABR AESA Radar for the F-16



APG-83.jpg

Link: SABR Datasheet
 

SQ8

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The Block 70/72s are literally souped up Block 50/52s. They are not the most advanced F-16s.



That's entirely false. The Block 60’s APG-80 is not a budget AESA, like the SABR or RACR. It has more TRMs, better cooling, significantly more peak power, better range, and not least a terrain following mode that works independently of other modes.




Oh, and the Block 61 upgrade fell through eons ago, so please stop bringing it up.
They probably don’t need to be .. there is something called the F-35 out now which the manufacturer would like to offer instead.

That being said the AESA and datalink is more advanced than the baseline Block-60.
 

khanasifm

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Gentlemen, before this turns into another historic [PDF] p!ssing contest - I took the liberty of searching for the appropriate answer..., by a former USAF Pilot*.

Hope it helps & that we come back on Earth with our ol' Block-15's & few Block-52's.

*Richard Crandall , former USAF F-111 and F-15E Pilot at U.S. Air Force (1980-1998)

The APG-80 is the AESA radar on UAE’s Block 60 F-16s while the APG-83 is a Scalable radar that is available to both older F-16s (Block 20 to 50) and the current Block 70 F-16.

The APG-83’s scalable design allows it to be integrated into all F-16s going back to Block 20 as in case of Taiwan. However, performance of a retrofitted APG-83 will be limited by the cooling capacity of the aircraft which was designed for a Mechanical radar. So APG-83 on older F-16s will have lower peak power and therefore, smaller range than APG-80 on Block 60 but its a major performance upgrade for the older F-16s flying with Mechanical radars.



However, it won’t be a problem for APG-83 on Block 70 as it’s a new airframe designed to accommodate the APG-83 radar at its full capacity. Both APG-83 on Block 70 and APG-80 on Block 60 should have very similar performance.

The APG-80 and APG-83 are from the same company (Northrop) that designed F-22 and F-35’s radar and use the same TRM technology (but not the same modules). I suspect the main difference between APG-80 and APG-83 will be in their Air-Ground modes, the APG-83 likely has better SAR resolution and use some of the ground target recognition algorithm in F-35’s radar.


-------------------------------------------

SABR AESA Radar for the F-16



View attachment 767020

Link: SABR Datasheet
UAE 🇦🇪 paid for its version and had rights to it to sell to other and it was first of kind commercial deals in the industry anyway there were no buyers and it’s at least decade older than saber , Raytheon and NG competed but NG had traditionally won usaf side while Raytheon on navy like f-18 radar and f-15 latest version

Northrop is basically old Westinghouse radar shop
 

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