What's new

Pakistan Eyes T-50 as Trainer Option

razgriz19

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 28, 2009
4,215
0
3,513
Country
Pakistan
Location
Canada
ISLAMABAD — Pakistan is considering purchase of the South Korean KAI T-50 Lead In Fighter Trainer (LIFT) to revamp its Air Force training program, although some viable alternatives remain.

Interest in the T-50 comes amid moves to improve Pakistani-South Korean defense industry collaboration, possibly including a new shipyard in the Pakistani port of Gwadar.

On March 26, a memorandum to ensure mutual standards of quality was signed by South Korea's Defence Agency for Technology & Quality and Pakistan's Ministry of Defence Production.
Korea-defence-visit1t.jpg


Pakistan's Secretary for Defence Production Lt. Gen. Tanvir Tahir said, "Pakistan is examining the [T-50] and assessing our needs and requirements accordingly."

Author, analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad Brian Cloughley said, "It is apparent that the Koreans are serious about further collaboration, they are not going to waste their time on a meaningless visit but they can be expected to examine options very carefully."

Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said new training aircraft could be needed once the current Chengdu F-7 variants are retired and stealth aircraft possibly acquired.

Currently, trainees transition from the subsonic intermediate K-8P jet to the supersonic FT-7P, which "seems to be sufficient for now," he said, adding that the K-8P appears to be performing satisfactorily in the LIFT role.

If a higher performance type is required, the T-50 fits the bill, but Shabbir said financial restrictions may dictate selection of a more affordable Chinese option. The Hongdu JL-10/L-15 has previously been examined by the Pakistan Air Force and could therefore be a more realistic option.

Douglas Barrie of the International Institute for Strategic Studies highlights the potential benefits of operating a twin-seat JF-17, currently under development in China.

"As far as LIFT goes, a training pipeline using the K-8 as the intermediate jet trainer and then pilots doing advanced jet training with a two-seat JF-17 would be one option. An alternative would be to use an L-15-class aircraft as an advanced jet trainer with pilots only doing type conversion on front-line squadrons to the JF-17, although again this could be done using a two-seat version. Using a two-seat JF-17 for advanced jet training would avoid introducing another aircraft type into inventory."

Justin Bronk at the Royal United Services Institute is also unconvinced of the need for a supersonic LIFT and said the "K-8's suitability for continued use will depend on fleet fatigue, life remaining and avionics fit, rather than performance characteristics per se."

He said a dedicated supersonic LIFT would cost as much to operate as an F-16, and that a twin-seat JF-17 would be preferable.

"A twin-seat JF-17 would certainly make it easier for new pilots to transition to the type straight from a K-8/Yak-130-class trainer. Being only slightly more expensive to operate than a T-50, its introduction to service would probably kill much of the rationale for a Pakistani purchase of the latter," he said.

Even possible acquisition of the Shenyang J-31/F-60 may not justify a supersonic LIFT.

"I would regard potential acquisition of the FC-31 for Pakistan as far enough away in terms of any meaningful operational capability that I'd disregard it as a significant factor in evaluating current requirements for advanced jet trainers in the PAF," he said.

Still, a new type may be required, said analyst, author, and former air commodore Kaiser Tufail, who added that use of T-37 and K-8P jets for basic and advanced training is undesirable.

"Use of turbojets/turbofans for basic training is contrary to the current trend, where turboprops have virtually taken over this role. Turboprops do not lack in performance in the training regime compared to turbojets/turbofans, and are much cheaper to operate all the same," he said.

"Looking at this trend, the PAF would do well to start looking at turboprop trainer options to replace the T-37s, just as the Turkish Air Force is doing by developing the Hurkus as a T-37 replacement."

The Turkish Aerospace Industries Hurkus is being promoted to Pakistan, but is not yet in Turkish service and therefore has limited attraction for Pakistan. Turkish deliveries are expected beginning in 2018.
 

Paksanity

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 18, 2014
2,376
40
4,067
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Something tells me more F-16s are on the way. T-50 is inspired by F-16s and can also perform duties in COIN as well as CAS role. It will be good in supporting PA thus freeing up rest of fleet for other duties.
 

Zarvan

ELITE MEMBER
Apr 28, 2011
52,827
85
61,453
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
ISLAMABAD — Pakistan is considering purchase of the South Korean KAI T-50 Lead In Fighter Trainer (LIFT) to revamp its Air Force training program, although some viable alternatives remain.

Interest in the T-50 comes amid moves to improve Pakistani-South Korean defense industry collaboration, possibly including a new shipyard in the Pakistani port of Gwadar.

On March 26, a memorandum to ensure mutual standards of quality was signed by South Korea's Defence Agency for Technology & Quality and Pakistan's Ministry of Defence Production.
Korea-defence-visit1t.jpg


Pakistan's Secretary for Defence Production Lt. Gen. Tanvir Tahir said, "Pakistan is examining the [T-50] and assessing our needs and requirements accordingly."

Author, analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad Brian Cloughley said, "It is apparent that the Koreans are serious about further collaboration, they are not going to waste their time on a meaningless visit but they can be expected to examine options very carefully."

Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said new training aircraft could be needed once the current Chengdu F-7 variants are retired and stealth aircraft possibly acquired.

Currently, trainees transition from the subsonic intermediate K-8P jet to the supersonic FT-7P, which "seems to be sufficient for now," he said, adding that the K-8P appears to be performing satisfactorily in the LIFT role.

If a higher performance type is required, the T-50 fits the bill, but Shabbir said financial restrictions may dictate selection of a more affordable Chinese option. The Hongdu JL-10/L-15 has previously been examined by the Pakistan Air Force and could therefore be a more realistic option.

Douglas Barrie of the International Institute for Strategic Studies highlights the potential benefits of operating a twin-seat JF-17, currently under development in China.

"As far as LIFT goes, a training pipeline using the K-8 as the intermediate jet trainer and then pilots doing advanced jet training with a two-seat JF-17 would be one option. An alternative would be to use an L-15-class aircraft as an advanced jet trainer with pilots only doing type conversion on front-line squadrons to the JF-17, although again this could be done using a two-seat version. Using a two-seat JF-17 for advanced jet training would avoid introducing another aircraft type into inventory."

Justin Bronk at the Royal United Services Institute is also unconvinced of the need for a supersonic LIFT and said the "K-8's suitability for continued use will depend on fleet fatigue, life remaining and avionics fit, rather than performance characteristics per se."

He said a dedicated supersonic LIFT would cost as much to operate as an F-16, and that a twin-seat JF-17 would be preferable.

"A twin-seat JF-17 would certainly make it easier for new pilots to transition to the type straight from a K-8/Yak-130-class trainer. Being only slightly more expensive to operate than a T-50, its introduction to service would probably kill much of the rationale for a Pakistani purchase of the latter," he said.

Even possible acquisition of the Shenyang J-31/F-60 may not justify a supersonic LIFT.

"I would regard potential acquisition of the FC-31 for Pakistan as far enough away in terms of any meaningful operational capability that I'd disregard it as a significant factor in evaluating current requirements for advanced jet trainers in the PAF," he said.

Still, a new type may be required, said analyst, author, and former air commodore Kaiser Tufail, who added that use of T-37 and K-8P jets for basic and advanced training is undesirable.

"Use of turbojets/turbofans for basic training is contrary to the current trend, where turboprops have virtually taken over this role. Turboprops do not lack in performance in the training regime compared to turbojets/turbofans, and are much cheaper to operate all the same," he said.

"Looking at this trend, the PAF would do well to start looking at turboprop trainer options to replace the T-37s, just as the Turkish Air Force is doing by developing the Hurkus as a T-37 replacement."

The Turkish Aerospace Industries Hurkus is being promoted to Pakistan, but is not yet in Turkish service and therefore has limited attraction for Pakistan. Turkish deliveries are expected beginning in 2018.
I posted this news months ago @Horus
 

razgriz19

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 28, 2009
4,215
0
3,513
Country
Pakistan
Location
Canada
Mohamad what u think its good option compare to twin seat jf17 ?if yes then what is future of k8 p ??

K-8 serves as an intermediate trainer so it will keep doing that job.
As per the article, Pilots go on to train on F-7PT afterwards for fighter conversion. Once PAF retires F-7, they will need a replacement. Jf-17 twin-seater is a good option, but it might be a bit costly to operate. I would prefer to see JF-17 taking over that role though, T-50 doesn't really bring anyything new to the table
 

mingle

SENIOR MEMBER
Apr 4, 2015
5,214
2
3,753
Country
Pakistan
Location
Canada
No I read it, I still believe that K-8 can do the job. But who am I? Not an expert of course. :)
No I read the article I don't see any reason to hire T 50 for job .Hurkus I will like to see them in PAF tweets r old need some rest .rest up to PAF and Ishaq Dar .
 

Zarvan

ELITE MEMBER
Apr 28, 2011
52,827
85
61,453
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
No I read the article I don't see any reason to hire T 50 for job .Hurkus I will like to see them in PAF tweets r old need some rest .rest up to PAF and Ishaq Dar .
I agree until and unless we get the armed version which along with training we can use to provide Air Support to Army and against India Armored Groups
 

ejaz007

SENIOR MEMBER
Jul 25, 2007
6,450
1
2,951
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Pakistan Eyes T-50 as Trainer Option

ISLAMABAD — Pakistan is considering purchase of the South Korean KAI T-50 Lead In Fighter Trainer (LIFT) to revamp its Air Force training program, although some viable alternatives remain.

Interest in the T-50 comes amid moves to improve Pakistani-South Korean defense industry collaboration, possibly including a new shipyard in the Pakistani port of Gwadar.

On March 26, a memorandum to ensure mutual standards of quality was signed by South Korea's Defence Agency for Technology & Quality and Pakistan's Ministry of Defence Production.

Pakistan's Secretary for Defence Production Lt. Gen. Tanvir Tahir said, "Pakistan is examining the [T-50] and assessing our needs and requirements accordingly."

Author, analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad Brian Cloughley said, "It is apparent that the Koreans are serious about further collaboration, they are not going to waste their time on a meaningless visit but they can be expected to examine options very carefully."

Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said new training aircraft could be needed once the current Chengdu F-7 variants are retired and stealth aircraft possibly acquired.

Currently, trainees transition from the subsonic intermediate K-8P jet to the supersonic FT-7P, which "seems to be sufficient for now," he said, adding that the K-8P appears to be performing satisfactorily in the LIFT role.

If a higher performance type is required, the T-50 fits the bill, but Shabbir said financial restrictions may dictate selection of a more affordable Chinese option. The Hongdu JL-10/L-15 has previously been examined by the Pakistan Air Force and could therefore be a more realistic option.

Douglas Barrie of the International Institute for Strategic Studies highlights the potential benefits of operating a twin-seat JF-17, currently under development in China.

"As far as LIFT goes, a training pipeline using the K-8 as the intermediate jet trainer and then pilots doing advanced jet training with a two-seat JF-17 would be one option. An alternative would be to use an L-15-class aircraft as an advanced jet trainer with pilots only doing type conversion on front-line squadrons to the JF-17, although again this could be done using a two-seat version. Using a two-seat JF-17 for advanced jet training would avoid introducing another aircraft type into inventory."

Justin Bronk at the Royal United Services Institute is also unconvinced of the need for a supersonic LIFT and said the "K-8's suitability for continued use will depend on fleet fatigue, life remaining and avionics fit, rather than performance characteristics per se."

He said a dedicated supersonic LIFT would cost as much to operate as an F-16, and that a twin-seat JF-17 would be preferable.

"A twin-seat JF-17 would certainly make it easier for new pilots to transition to the type straight from a K-8/Yak-130-class trainer. Being only slightly more expensive to operate than a T-50, its introduction to service would probably kill much of the rationale for a Pakistani purchase of the latter," he said.

Even possible acquisition of the Shenyang J-31/F-60 may not justify a supersonic LIFT.

"I would regard potential acquisition of the FC-31 for Pakistan as far enough away in terms of any meaningful operational capability that I'd disregard it as a significant factor in evaluating current requirements for advanced jet trainers in the PAF," he said.

Still, a new type may be required, said analyst, author, and former air commodore Kaiser Tufail, who added that use of T-37 and K-8P jets for basic and advanced training is undesirable.

"Use of turbojets/turbofans for basic training is contrary to the current trend, where turboprops have virtually taken over this role. Turboprops do not lack in performance in the training regime compared to turbojets/turbofans, and are much cheaper to operate all the same," he said.

"Looking at this trend, the PAF would do well to start looking at turboprop trainer options to replace the T-37s, just as the Turkish Air Force is doing by developing the Hurkus as a T-37 replacement."

The Turkish Aerospace Industries Hurkus is being promoted to Pakistan, but is not yet in Turkish service and therefore has limited attraction for Pakistan. Turkish deliveries are expected beginning in 2018.

Email: uansari@defensenews.com

Pakistan Eyes T-50 as Trainer Option
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom