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Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

ziaulislam

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Wrong assessment bro.
Al Khalid and now Al Khalid 1 are very capable machines and will hold their own against t90. That is the reason it forms the tier 1 of our armour capability.
The only reason for buying vt4 off the shelf was that at the moment HIT is working on full tilt and has its hand's full. But the no. Of tanks to be replaced in PA is huge and HIT simply can't do all by its self.
if thats a reason, than not a good reason
 

Pandora

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Call me a non believer.. But spending two billion dollars on 300 tanks and another billion on 20 gunships..thats 3billion dollars..

In the grand scheme of events it wont come to tanks..better spend that moeny on getting something better for the airforce and sticking with alkhalid till monetary situation improves

If anything febuary 29 just proved that
You cant capture enemy territory with Infantry alone hence tanks play a crucial role in defeating enemy armor and fortifications. Our airpower will be busy countering enemy's air power which is almost twice the size of our own.
 

waz

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I know if GL-5 but any confirmation reports that export version will have it? I haven't came across any
The Pakistani version does yes. Reports are hard to come by. I believe the Thais have also ordered their tanks to be also outfitted with it.
 
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Reichmarshal

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if thats a reason, than not a good reason
U just saying "not a good reason" is in reality not good enough.

We need to under stand we have a resource constraint n can do so much.....unless ppl like u who think it's all not good enough can give modp a few billion $ to expand their capability, so we don't have to buy off the shelf.
 

Signalian

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Call me a non believer.. But spending two billion dollars on 300 tanks and another billion on 20 gunships..thats 3billion dollars..

In the grand scheme of events it wont come to tanks..better spend that moeny on getting something better for the airforce and sticking with alkhalid till monetary situation improves

If anything febuary 29 just proved that

Looking at work horses of branches of Pak Armed Forces. Foreign MBT (VT-4) for PA. Foreign Frigates (054) and Subs (039) for PN.
At least JF-17 is not completely foreign. PAF is ahead in this case. Had AK production continued, PA would have been on par with PAF.
 

PDF

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That will not be just a statement.

By giving crew protection and survivability paramount importance means changing our whole doctrine, way of thinking, tactics, equipment manufacturing and procurement.

Take the example of Merkava... It heavily focuses on crew protection, hence they got the engine at the front, heavy armor, APS...... In the end though they got a very heavy tank but it assures crew survivability.... It's costly as well, but then it follows their doctrine.

Our doctrine also focuses on mobility, keeping in view the terrain available to us, enemy threats, the terrain objectives required to be achieved etc. Mobility has some inherent protection in itself as well.

To put it bluntly....
The value of life, any life, in our region is very less compared to the the West.

Our doctrines and tactics heavily focus on attainment of designated objectives at ALL COSTS.

We do not have such a concept that you should save your life whenever required,, no problem about the objective, will achieve it tomorrow provided we are alive.

Manpower resources are plentiful hence they can be easily replaced.
Inspired by Russian/Soviet comrades.
 

Tipu7

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Looking at work horses of branches of Pak Armed Forces. Foreign MBT (VT-4) for PA. Foreign Frigates (054) and Subs (039) for PN.
At least JF-17 is not completely foreign. PAF is ahead in this case. Had AK production continued, PA would have been on par with PAF.
The roots of all issues are lack financial support and poor policy framework related to indigenous tank project (Al Khalid)
We acquired T-85IIP because our indigenous tank project failed to even start in 80s despite numerous initial attempts in 60s-70s. India was raising fleet of T-72M and a counterbalance was needed, which happened in shape of
T-85.

Then we acquired T-80UD because Al Khalid project failed to achieve the requisite timeline of production initiation in the 90s. Main issue was the availability of engines.

And now we are acquiring VT-4 because Al Khalid production number has failed to hit even the minimum target limit.

If we had handled this project with competency and some added financial support, our fleet would have been much uniform. By now (randomly estimating) our entire Tank fleet had comprised of some 1200 Al Khalid and 1200 Al Zarrar in different configurations.

A homogeneous fleet of 2400+ MBTs with domestic support infrastructure! But alas...
 

Dreamer.

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U just saying "not a good reason" is in reality not good enough.

We need to under stand we have a resource constraint n can do so much.....unless ppl like u who think it's all not good enough can give modp a few billion $ to expand their capability, so we don't have to buy off the shelf.
Ummm.....perhaps you could give modp the same few billion $ that will be used tho buy the off the shelf equipment??

At least try to make sense by giving proper reasoning.
 

CHI RULES

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Pakistan fedup with arm blackmailing ... Japanese are American puppet..
It is strange that Japanese have had policy not to cooperate with countries having nuclear weapons with exception of USA but now they are openly dealing with India and their defense minister even contacted with Gen Bajwa in recent past. Still even if Pak likes they cannot afford expensive Japanese tech. The VT-4 reportedly with FY4 ERA and GL5 hard kill active protection system is best option, I have read that perhaps Pak VT-4s have extra feature of upgraded engine also.

May be if GL5 is effective enough should also be deployed on AKs and up coming AK versions.
 

Dreamer.

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The roots of all issues are lack financial support and poor policy framework related to indigenous tank project (Al Khalid)
We acquired T-85IIP because our indigenous tank project failed to even start in 80s despite numerous initial attempts in 60s-70s. India was raising fleet of T-72M and a counterbalance was needed, which happened in shape of
T-85.

Then we acquired T-80UD because Al Khalid project failed to achieve the requisite timeline of production initiation in the 90s. Main issue was the availability of engines.

And now we are acquiring VT-4 because Al Khalid production number has failed to hit even the minimum target limit.

If we had handled this project with competency and some added financial support, our fleet would have been much uniform. By now (randomly estimating) our entire Tank fleet had comprised of some 1200 Al Khalid and 1200 Al Zarrar in different configurations.

A homogeneous fleet of 2400+ MBTs with domestic support infrastructure! But alas...
I remember that alkhalid project was kicked off by Gen. Aslam Beg! I still remember pictures of him riding in a prototype that appeared in the newspapers around 1990. THIRTY years later we have ONLY ~400 or so Alkhalid tanks and now buying off the shelf again! The ALkhalid project (the project, not the tank) if not a failure is certainly not a glaring success either.

But it's a lot more than lack of finances that are responsible. Lack of vision, lack of will, lack of execution aswell. But most importantly lack of WILL. That alone was a factor why nuclear/missile/JF-17 programmes etc. were successfull.
 

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