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Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

maverick1977

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POPEYE-Sailor

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WHY Pakistan army did not consider to buy Japanese tank Type-10 its similar to German leopard 2.
German and Japanese both are expert in manufacturing tank as they showed tank-power in world war 2.


1280px-Type10MBT.jpg


 

Figaro

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WHY Pakistan army did not consider to buy Japanese tank Type-10 its similar to German leopard 2.
German and Japanese both are expert in manufacturing tank as they showed tank-power in world war 2.


View attachment 671537

Actually Japanese tanks had a very bad reputation in World War II ... they couldn't even perform well in China against an opponent with no tanks and minimal anti-tank weaponry. The Type 10 is a good tank but for a 8.4 million dollar unit cost, it for sure is not worth it. I think the T-14 Armata would be a good choice but there are definitely significant problems with its design or subsystems since the Russians have barely inducted them and have decided instead on spending massive sums of money on modernizing their T-72s. This sounds to me that the 3.8 million dollar per unit price tag is a smokescreen rather than a reality - you get what you pay for.
 

farooqbhai007

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Indeed the type 10 has its drawbacks and is simply too expensive. The japanese are themselves not buying anymore Type 10s and instead producing more Type 16s since those are much cheaper and full fill the roles in Japan much easily due to much better mobility such as urban warfare.
 

ziaulislam

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Call me a non believer.. But spending two billion dollars on 300 tanks and another billion on 20 gunships..thats 3billion dollars..

In the grand scheme of events it wont come to tanks..better spend that moeny on getting something better for the airforce and sticking with alkhalid till monetary situation improves

If anything febuary 29 just proved that
 

CHI RULES

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Dear, all the services are giving in their best, whatever is humanely possible within our resources. If we were having infinite cash and resources, then sky would have been the limit.
Sir any future conflict if happens shall depend on AF capabilities and despite limited resources their utilization is optimal by PA and PN, however on one hand it is my personal view based on some skimming of write up by ex PAF pro that Pak should now work on two areas one PAF jets i.e block III JF17 with superior capabilities along with least V upgrade for limited number of F16s from existing fleet along with stability/ induction of more capable SAMs for protection of our major cities. In the end induction of VT-IV as per reported capabilities looks superior to Indian T90s so far and a good/ in time decision by PA.
 

ziaulislam

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Sir any future conflict if happens shall depend on AF capabilities and despite limited resources their utilization is optimal by PA and PN, however on one hand it is my personal view based on some skimming of write up by ex PAF pro that Pak should now work on two areas one PAF jets i.e block III JF17 with superior capabilities along with least V upgrade for limited number of F16s from existing fleet along with stability/ induction of more capable SAMs for protection of our major cities. In the end induction of VT-IV as per reported capabilities looks superior to Indian T90s so far and a good/ in time decision by PA.
If you dont own the sky, tanks dont matter..this is known to everyone since 1990s desert storm..
Army should stuck to alkhalid and siphoned off extra money to either airdefense or the airforce
 

waz

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Can we please keep talk of fighter jets off here.

This is about the VT-4, and no, Pakistan had critical armour shortages that are now being addressed. No matter how great your airforce is, you simply can't rely on that to stem mass armoured thrusts, especially with a more numerous IAF which the PAF will be busy with, and the fact that weather can stem the effectiveness of any CAS, but weather won't do squat to hundreds of tanks speeding in with their infantry compliments. Also once they take ground it would be virtually impossible to dislodge them without massed ground forces.
The army needs at least 2,800 modern tanks to counter the IA alone.
 
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Figaro

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Can we please keep talk of fighter jets off here.

This is about the VT-4, and no, Pakistan had critical armour shortages that are now being addressed. No matter how great your airforce is, you simply can't rely on that to stem mass armoured thrusts, especially with a more numerous IAF which the PAF will be busy with, and the fact that weather can stem the effectiveness of any CAS, but weather won't do squats to hundreds of tanks speeding in with their infantry compliments. Also once they take ground it would be virtually impossible to dislodge them without massed ground forces.
The army needs at least 2,800 modern tanks to counter the IA alone.
The PAF, even if more capable than the IAF, does not possess a decisive advantage. As such, it will be very difficult for the PAF to conduct extensive airstrikes against the massed Indian formations like the Americans did against the Iraqis when the Indians are also contesting the skies. Of course this is not to say the air force won't be available for strike roles, it just means the bulk of the fighting will still have to be done by tanks and artillery, especially the A-100 MLRS. But the good news is that Indians operate their armor in Soviet formation, which primarily relies on massive force concentration to break through an objective, meaning they will be very vulnerable to massed artillery (bringing back the A-100MLRS again) and PAF airstrikes.
If you dont own the sky, tanks dont matter..this is known to everyone since 1990s desert storm..
Army should stuck to alkhalid and siphoned off extra money to either airdefense or the airforce
It will be very hard for either side to achieve a decisive aerial advantage in war. India will continually be resupplied by its foreign backers while Pakistan too will be resupplied and manufacture more Thunders and what not. The fact that Pakistan can even hold its own against a neighbor 7 times more populous is already a huge accomplishment ... but to say it will have a decisive aerial advantage is stretching it too far. Regarding the Al-Khalid, the reasons why the PA decided to purchase the VT-4, if I had to surmise, was because the Al-Khalids would not perform too well against the top of the line Indian T-90s. And the purchase also considered the possible scenario of India acquiring the Russian Armatas later on, which would be an even bigger threat. As such, the VT-4 being a very modern heavy tank in its own right is a good countermeasure against these future developments.
 
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ziaulislam

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Can we please keep talk of fighter jets off here.

This is about the VT-4, and no, Pakistan had critical armour shortages that are now being addressed. No matter how great your airforce is, you simply can't rely on that to stem mass armoured thrusts, especially with a more numerous IAF which the PAF will be busy with, and the fact that weather can stem the effectiveness of any CAS, but weather won't do squat to hundreds of tanks speeding in with their infantry compliments. Also once they take ground it would be virtually impossible to dislodge them without massed ground forces.
The army needs at least 2,800 modern tanks to counter the IA alone.
So does VT-4 has active protection ?
 

Reichmarshal

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Regarding the Al-Khalid, the reasons why the PA decided to purchase the VT-4, if I had to surmise, was because the Al-Khalids would not perform too well against the top of the line Indian T-90s. And the purchase also considered the possible scenario of India acquiring the Russian Armatas later on, which would be an even bigger threat.
Wrong assessment bro.
Al Khalid and now Al Khalid 1 are very capable machines and will hold their own against t90. That is the reason it forms the tier 1 of our armour capability.
The only reason for buying vt4 off the shelf was that at the moment HIT is working on full tilt and has its hand's full. But the no. Of tanks to be replaced in PA is huge and HIT simply can't do all by its self.
 

Figaro

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Disagree but will not derail the VT 4 thread.
IAF holds an advantage which is widening with new procurements
There is no doubt about this advantage the IAF possesses ... but there are ways to overcome it. For example, look at the performance of the Iranian air force vs the Iraqis during the Iran-Iraq War. Practically no one was supplying the Iranians with aircraft and they still countered the Iraqis pretty well.
 

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