What's new

Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

Max

ELITE MEMBER
Nov 3, 2014
8,338
-3
11,453
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Pakistan is in the same dilemma as Turkey was in; and Turkey has made decision by initiating the indigenous defence industry in land, air, sea, E/W.

Pakistan could keep buying on the shelves of Russia, China, USA etc. with ''conditions'' added in her interests for saving the days; or encounter the time and risk the half money in JVs with Turkey for freedom in her interests for the future to come.

At some point, you will have to make this decision either way; today, tomorrow or decades later. Unfortunate to lose many things till awaring of that point.
It seems right now our military establishment is fine with off the shelf, now Pakistan have to wait for next phase of shock therapy (US military sanction) to wake up. When last time sanctions blocked our way, we ended up with nuclear program, missile program, Tank production and JFT along with many small things like own shoulder fire anti aircraft missile and anti tank missile which we are upgrading till now.
 
Apr 22, 2013
4,224
-9
5,237
Country
Turkey
Location
Turkey
It seems right now our military establishment is fine with off the shelf, now Pakistan have to wait for next phase of shock therapy (US military sanction) to wake up. When last time sanctions blocked our way, we ended up with nuclear program, missile program, Tank production and JFT along with many small things like own shoulder fire anti aircraft missile and anti tank missile which we are upgrading till now.
I think you are unfair for your ''military establishment''; quite the opposite, they are the most innocent party in this scenario.

The answer to the dilemma lies in the politicians and bureaucracy in Pakistan; and unfortunately, your ''military establishment'' will have to be sacrificed if they push hard for the sake of Pakistani interests... just like in Turkey.
 

Max

ELITE MEMBER
Nov 3, 2014
8,338
-3
11,453
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
I think you are unfair for your ''military establishment''; quite the opposite, they are the most innocent party in this scenario.

The answer to the dilemma lies in the politicians and bureaucracy in Pakistan; and unfortunately, your ''military establishment'' will have to be sacrificed if they push hard for the sake of Pakistani interests... just like in Turkey.
when i say military establishment, it means all institutions who are involve in defense productions, acquisition whether Politicians, Generals, bureaucrats.
 

CHI RULES

FULL MEMBER
Mar 23, 2015
1,790
5
1,466
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Possibly a delay of upto a year. The zulus may take time and it would be wrong to sit there relying on them to come. Looking at the situation US might have engineered it to get PAA to ask for Zulus. T129s may yet come. It is the responsibility of the Turkish company to find an alternate engine and we will play it like we did the RD saga in the 90s.

It will need trials in Pak lands and the time may be now for hot and high trials and November for cold and high trials. I think the former are more important for Pakistan. The question is how far back is the ATAK Shifted back due to engine non supply and will IK be able to push US to give a nod!
A
Sir I am quite agreed with you that delay shall happen but eventually Pak will get T129 with either EU based engine ( vital chances) or in dire circumstances with Russian ( in case of no other option). On other hand if cards are played wisely Pak may get deliveries of 13 AH1z in next few months and even may go for two optional ones later on.

Though it is discussed earlier yet I am of the view that in any future medium scale conflict we may observe one to one confrontation between Indian Attack helis and Pak's. I have seen Indian videos where there domestically produced Attack helis going for A to A kills during testing/exercises. We should also arm our future attack helis with AAMs and train our pilots in same way.

I think you are unfair for your ''military establishment''; quite the opposite, they are the most innocent party in this scenario.

The answer to the dilemma lies in the politicians and bureaucracy in Pakistan; and unfortunately, your ''military establishment'' will have to be sacrificed if they push hard for the sake of Pakistani interests... just like in Turkey.
Dear member you cannot understand the situation from outside, the main issues Pak is facing are following and mainly due to lack of proper planning and resources.

1. Lack of infrastructure or fiances to go for TOT/R&D.
2.Limited number of superior research institutes/Tech Uni
3. Brain drain

Now Pakistan is going on right path though delayed development some of them are.
1. Work sharing by defense institutions.
2. Acknowledgement of private sector importance in defense sector though limited.
3. Establishment of new requirement based institutions for future self reliance in technology.
4. Establishment infrastructure i.e Aviation city project by PAF, induction of new equipment for ship manufacturing etc.

The better results shall come if progress goes on but not immediately but in time span of next 10-12 Years.
 

Dazzler

PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Oct 19, 2008
8,575
29
20,315
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
The upgraded version came just too late for trials, we could just go with the Z10ME and wait for Attak 2.
The ME was tailor made for PA as it addressed all concerns from improving engine output, changing HMDS and engine intake, put shoulder armor plates and change the main turret/ optics. PA should put it to trials.
 

JK!

PROFESSIONAL
Nov 15, 2006
1,454
2
434
The ME was tailor made for PA as it addressed all concerns from improving engine output, changing HMDS and engine intake, put shoulder armor plates and change the main turret/ optics. PA should put it to trials.

Is there scope to integrate the avionics and weapon systems of the ATAK into Z10ME as a platform?

That way if in the long Pakistan and Turkey can see if French Safran or Polish PZL engines could be integrated into ATAK for the long term whilst still having Z10ME as an interim solution
 

Rafi

ELITE MEMBER
Jul 23, 2010
10,825
11
17,434
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
The ME was tailor made for PA as it addressed all concerns from improving engine output, changing HMDS and engine intake, put shoulder armor plates and change the main turret/ optics. PA should put it to trials.
Defo, unfortunately the T129 has become part of the tussle between the US and Turkey.

As has been suggested we can take the deal signed for Atak 1 and join Atak 2 as a partner, win win.
 

mingle

SENIOR MEMBER
Apr 4, 2015
4,366
2
3,091
Country
Pakistan
Location
Canada
Defo, unfortunately the T129 has become part of the tussle between the US and Turkey.

As has been suggested we can take the deal signed for Atak 1 and join Atak 2 as a partner, win win.
Sir any news from US so far and what r expectations??? My take is we will get Zulus.
 

nomi007

ELITE MEMBER
Jan 11, 2010
8,047
8
8,788
The ME was tailor made for PA as it addressed all concerns from improving engine output, changing HMDS and engine intake, put shoulder armor plates and change the main turret/ optics. PA should put it to trials.
Chinese machinery is not satisfactory PN is already facing issues of maintenance in Z-9 helos.
better to adopt western platform Euro tiger is far better option than turkish
 

Dazzler

PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Oct 19, 2008
8,575
29
20,315
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Chinese machinery is not satisfactory PN is already facing issues of maintenance in Z-9 helos.
better to adopt western platform Euro tiger is far better option than turkish
That tiger is a while elephant.
 

ziaulislam

ELITE MEMBER
Apr 22, 2010
13,323
10
11,936
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Chinese machinery is not satisfactory PN is already facing issues of maintenance in Z-9 helos.
better to adopt western platform Euro tiger is far better option than turkish
funny because z-9 is more like licence copy ..unless Chinese cant do licence manufacturing?
of course they can as almost everything is manufactured in china these days

i am no expert but i feel do we really need gunships when the militancy has became low intensity war?..drones seems to be better options now ?with their 20+ hours loiter time ?..cheaper..?

if they are being brought for anti Armour role for our eastern boarder..well i will first shore up PAF ...which is in very bad shap..without PAF gunships wont survive onslaught from IAF..

army can mean time try getting the Zulus and look for if possible nay upgrade for old cobras like jordan did..acquire couple of more mi24 as multirole..
 
Last edited:

fatman17

PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Apr 24, 2007
28,738
84
34,164
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
funny because z-9 is more like licence copy ..unless Chinese cant do licence manufacturing?
of course they can as almost everything is manufactured in china these days

i am no expert but i feel do we need really need gunships when the militancy has became low intensity war..drones seems to be better options now with their 20+ hours loiter time ..cheaper..

if they are being brought for anti Armour role for our eastern boarder..well i will first shore up PAF ...which is in very bad shap..without PAF gunships wont survive onslaught from IAF..

army can mean time try getting the Zulus and look for if possible nay upgrade for old cobras like jordan did..acquire couple of more mi24 as multirole..
There are no issues with Zee9ers
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Top