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GriffinsRule

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Could PAC produce something like this indigenously because it doesn’t look too different from mushshak?


Is there any hope they’ll fix this issue and properly manage HIT and POF?
I don’t think they’ll ever remove the generals I think they’ll always have this issue and same for every other project because for some reason we love making people who aren’t qualified for something in charge of the thing
We possibly could but not worth it for the small numbers required. These are also very different than Mushshaks and I'd imagine Cessna would still produce these cheaper and of better quality than anything Pakistan would produce.
 

Moon

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Your post shows you have no clue about India air defense and you want Pakistani pilots to get killed.

Pakistan military is not stupid and military Sat Com is not that easy to jam.

There is reason why world is moving towards AI UCAVs, if those were that easy to jam then world would have not invested in those heavily.
AI is very different from being controlled from a ground station or a satellite.
How do you think Iran downed a RQ-170?
Plus nobody will sell Pakistan an autonomous UCAV.
 

iLION12345_1

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I'm not sure where did you get the medevac thing from but these are actually for VIP flights. Other than the top most VIP fleet this is used.
Yes and no, they are definitely for MEDEVAC. But when there’s no MEDEVAC to do because there’s no war going on, they need to use them someway, so they use them for VIP flights. The time and money saved by using an aircraft for long VIP flights over large convoys of cars that will also mess with traffic is valuable. So Airplane is more economical than car in this case.
 

GriffinsRule

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Yes and no, they are definitely for MEDEVAC. But when there’s no MEDEVAC to do because there’s no war going on, they need to use them someway, so they use them for VIP flights. The time and money saved by using an aircraft for long VIP flights over large convoys of cars that will also mess with traffic is valuable. So Airplane is more economical than car in this case.
Pakistan initially received 6 from the US for medivac and general transport purposes.


In addition to this role, these aircraft are prefer for short haul trips carrying plenty of cargo or troops and can operate from short and unprepared airstrips. They are also used for logistics, reconnaissance, battlefield assessment, SAR and if fitted with STAR system in ISR capacity.
 

Basel

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AI is very different from being controlled from a ground station or a satellite.
How do you think Iran downed a RQ-170?
Plus nobody will sell Pakistan an autonomous UCAV.
AI UCAVs are not fully autonomous in current form, most AI UCAVs are still controlled from ground specially during landing and take off.

Planes like A-10, Super Tucanos are not for Indo-Pak war senario as they need air dominance first by respective air force by performing SEAD/DEAD which is not possible for both India and Pakistan.
 

Moon

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AI UCAVs are not fully autonomous in current form, most AI UCAVs are still controlled from ground specially during landing and take off.

Planes like A-10, Super Tucanos are not for Indo-Pak war senario as they need air dominance first by respective air force by performing SEAD/DEAD which is not possible for both India and Pakistan.
Does this rule not apply to gunships as well? Yet every army uses them.
In my later posts, I said Tucanos can play a decisive role in counter-terrorism as well.
 

Basel

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Does this rule not apply to gunships as well? Yet every army uses them.
In my later posts, I said Tucanos can play a decisive role in counter-terrorism as well.
Nope, because they have different flight characteristics and way of employment which allow them better safety.
 

Moon

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Nope, because they have different flight characteristics and way of employment which allow them better safety.
I think we can do the same with Tucano-like aircrafts. Better sensor integration and unique flight tactics could allow for a lethal combination. Plus they could have a secondary role in destroying enemy gunships.
Combination of passive and active sensors can allow for automated nap of earth flight, they can also stay far away from the battlefield and lob long range rockets, thanks to their higher flight altitude and speed.
However I think they'd do far better in counterterrorism missions.
 

Basel

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I think we can do the same with Tucano-like aircrafts. Better sensor integration and unique flight tactics could allow for a lethal combination. Plus they could have a secondary role in destroying enemy gunships.
Combination of passive and active sensors can allow for automated nap of earth flight, they can also stay far away from the battlefield and lob long range rockets, thanks to their higher flight altitude and speed.
However I think they'd do far better in counterterrorism missions.
Dear, fixed wing light planes like Tucanos can not hide behind obstacles like trees, buildings, etc. They can not land like helicopters in emergency so they are not good for our doctrine.
 

Moon

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Dear, fixed wing light planes like Tucanos can not hide behind obstacles like trees, buildings, etc. They can not land like helicopters in emergency so they are not good for our doctrine.
I agree that's a disadvantage, but we can use them in Counterterrorism and observational roles, for which we're Mushaks and gunships. We can manufacture something like that in the country and give FC a major advantage over the terrorists.
 

araz

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I think we can do the same with Tucano-like aircrafts. Better sensor integration and unique flight tactics could allow for a lethal combination. Plus they could have a secondary role in destroying enemy gunships.
Combination of passive and active sensors can allow for automated nap of earth flight, they can also stay far away from the battlefield and lob long range rockets, thanks to their higher flight altitude and speed.
However I think they'd do far better in counterterrorism missions.
No plane can do what a helo can do, hide behind terrain rise shoot and duck. I suspect if we had something like a Quadcopter carrying enough weapons the role might be similar but currently at least I do not know of one which is big enough to carry enough Ammo to matter.
A
 

Basel

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I agree that's a disadvantage, but we can use them in Counterterrorism and observational roles, for which we're Mushaks and gunships. We can manufacture something like that in the country and give FC a major advantage over the terrorists.
Pakistan is shifting towards MALE UAVs/UCAVs for anti terror air ops which will work with other assets like helicopters, troops on ground etc, so no funds and place for birds like Tucanos for paramilitary as we don't have big budget available and also we are moving towards 21 century warfare capabilities.

The role of Mushaks will be taken by UCAVs, the will be serving as trainers and secondary armed recce birds in future.
No plane can do what a helo can do, hide behind terrain rise shoot and duck. I suspect if we had something like a Quadcopter carrying enough weapons the role might be similar but currently at least I do not know of one which is big enough to carry enough Ammo to matter.
A
There was news about Pakistan buying VTOL UCAVs from China to be used in Swarms what happened to that??
No plane can do what a helo can do, hide behind terrain rise shoot and duck. I suspect if we had something like a Quadcopter carrying enough weapons the role might be similar but currently at least I do not know of one which is big enough to carry enough Ammo to matter.
A
China have reportedly have deployed following type of UCAV at LAC.


 
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Moon

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No plane can do what a helo can do, hide behind terrain rise shoot and duck. I suspect if we had something like a Quadcopter carrying enough weapons the role might be similar but currently at least I do not know of one which is big enough to carry enough Ammo to matter.
A
I'm talking about Counterterrorism in particular, UCAVs need extremely expensive guided munitions to carry out their tasks, something a plane (Tucano) can do with unguided munitions.
Furthermore for CT ops we need to develop a 10 minute rule, that air assets in area shouldn't take longer than 10 minutes to reach the troop/unit asking for air support, for that you need faster aircrafts.


Also in case of VTOL UCAVs I think you're talking about the NORINCO CR-500.
 

Scorpiooo

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HIT and POF are mismanaged. Put the right people in charge (i.e., NOT generals who are not trained or qualified for managing an industrial outfit), HIT, POF, etc will generate results.
Question who will do it , seems to have no chances "Billi kay galay main ghanti kon dalay"
 

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