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Readerdefence

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How is Chinese Z-10 tried and tested?

Whereas, ATAK has been truly combat proven against Kurdish fighter within Turkey and various factions in Syrian Afrin operations.
Hi it’s been tired and tested by army aviation that’s why been send back for further upgrades accordingly now if we talk about testing in real warfare most of the Chinese gadgets not been tested accordingly as I’m not advocating not to buy one or leave other but at the moment if army aviation is in dire need of a gunship Z10 at the moment only available platform Pakistan
thank you
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Ahmet Pasha

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Hi it’s been tired and tested by army aviation that’s why been send back for further upgrades accordingly now if we talk about testing in real warfare most of the Chinese gadgets not been tested accordingly as I’m not advocating not to buy one or leave other but at the moment if army aviation is in dire need of a gunship Z10 at the moment only available platform Pakistan
thank you
images coutrsey by78 SDF
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Ok. My earlier post was because İ thought, you were talking about combat testing.
 

Reddawn

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Are there plans to purchase more Mi17s? The Pumas will need replacing soon.

Of all the footage of PAA Mi17s I've never seen troops embark/disembark using the rear ramp. Always the side doors. My question to knowledgeable members is that in combat is the rear ramp used to quickly disembark/embark troops? I'm assuming door gunners are placed port and starboard? Or is the Mi17 only used behind the front lines to ferry troops/supplies and never as an assault help?
 
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Shabi1

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Let's add another curve ball to the mix. The link says a customer in South Asia which has also bought VT-4 is procuring CR-500 UCAVs, this is a hint towards Pakistan. These can integrate with VT-4s as armed spotters. I think in conventional role these could be deployed in greater numbers and be better tank busters in the modern high threat environment.
Such a procurement would give PA some relaxation in inducting manned gunships. Let's wait and see 23rd March parade isn't far.

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Incog_nito

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What are possibilities that PA will negotiate a deal with USA for 12 AH-1Z Cobras for $1 Billion as proposed?
With the current threats from all four corners of the borders, the Pak Army Aviation needs to strengthen its Attack Helicopter Fleet.
  • 30 AH-1Z Vipers
  • 30 T-129 ATAK
  • 30 Z-10
These numbers should be increased based on the newer models available over the course of time.
 

fatman17

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It was reported in February 2020 that Pakistani Army has shown a serious interest in Z-10ME after the Turkish T129 attack helicopter deal was jeopardized. A recent video (September 2018) suggested that some Z-10s and Z-10Hs (S/N LH9621xx, 9531xx, 9631xx, 9511xx, 9911xx) have been further upgraded. It features external ceramic armor plates outside the forward and back cockpits as well as the engine compartment to provide a better protection against small AAA fire. MAWS sensors were installed on both sides of the nose. The gunner also wears the new HMD. The latest image (February 2020) indicated some have redesigned engine exhausts facing upward similar to those onboard Z-10ME in order to reduce IR signature (S/N 9531xx, 9921xx), suggesting the engine has been upgraded. The latest video (July 2020) indicated that Z-10 is capable of firing the MMW guided KD-X fire-and-forget ATGM similar to American AGM-114L.
- Last Updated 1/19/21
 

MIRauf

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What are possibilities that PA will negotiate a deal with USA for 12 AH-1Z Cobras for $1 Billion as proposed?
With the current threats from all four corners of the borders, the Pak Army Aviation needs to strengthen its Attack Helicopter Fleet.
  • 30 AH-1Z Vipers
  • 30 T-129 ATAK
  • 30 Z-10
These numbers should be increased based on the newer models available over the course of time.
Can you care to expand on this list ? why and how they will serve PA ? in what category and or capacity ? Make a strong solid case for PA to induct three different types, instead of two, any case beside how good they will look or how and why you would like to see these birds in PA colors. While at it, also explain to PA how they will need to setup, training, maintenance and field support for these three types.

"PS: Sorry, I didn't mean to write a theses on this, just couldn't pen it all down in Cliff Notes."
-- .. .-.
 

Signalian

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What are possibilities that PA will negotiate a deal with USA for 12 AH-1Z Cobras for $1 Billion as proposed?
With the current threats from all four corners of the borders, the Pak Army Aviation needs to strengthen its Attack Helicopter Fleet.
  • 30 AH-1Z Vipers
  • 30 T-129 ATAK
  • 30 Z-10
These numbers should be increased based on the newer models available over the course of time.
3 different platforms having 90 pieces while mission profile remains almost same. American, Turkish and Chinese, all having different engines and parts. 2 of these can share weapon systems. 2 of these will have MmW radars. All will have different sensors with nearly same functionality. Datalinks of 2 can be be interlinked while Z-10 maybe connected through another interconnecting system giving latency of 1-2 msec. Overhauling time frame could be different. Ground crews will need to specialize in at least two of these while still being able to maintain the 3rd bird. Transitioning from -1F to -1Z could be easier but the other two gunships would be different machines. 90 would mean 6 x Squadrons considering 12 per squadron while others are spare. Current gunship squadrons are 3 so basically doubling the force with better platform and weapon systems.

The fate of 48 x AH-1F has yet to be ascertained. The "jugaroo" way things work in Pakistan, these AH-1F can still be used in COIN Ops. A C4I team in Mi-17 equipped with MmW radar, 2-3 surveillance drones in air and a handful of AH-1F. The Mi-17 and drones guide the AH-1F to targets which takes them out through strafing or rickets or TOW/BS. There is low threat level of SAM/RPG in COIN war. The missing weapon is a FnF Missile. Integration of BARQ missile should have been considered for AH-1F and future gunship platforms.

If these 48 x AH-1F are not retired instead divided amongst I,II and V Corps as dedicated assets, this would give the Corps HQs more flexibility and firepower instead of requesting for gunships through Aviation Command or GHQ or Regional Command.

The need of transport heli will always be there. RVFC is providing mules for transport in mountain regions. A transport helicopter with adequate cargo space or sling load capability is a better option. Mules on tracks and trucks on roads in mountains can be a back up or otherwise size/weight restrictions of cargo. A dedicated Med Evac variant of transport helicopter with 4 x stretchers is needed since Field hospitals and specialized medical departments in CMHs are located at central places only.

Almost every US Divisional formation has an aviation brigade having 1 attack squadron and 2-3 transport squadrons. This may not be possible in divisional structure of PA but some Corps HQs can be assigned dedicated assets.
 

Desert Fox 1

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If these 48 x AH-1F are not retired instead divided amongst I,II and V Corps as dedicated assets, this would give the Corps HQs more flexibility and firepower instead of requesting for gunships through Aviation Command or GHQ or Regional Command.
Especially V corps
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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3 different platforms having 90 pieces while mission profile remains almost same. American, Turkish and Chinese, all having different engines and parts. 2 of these can share weapon systems. 2 of these will have MmW radars. All will have different sensors with nearly same functionality. Datalinks of 2 can be be interlinked while Z-10 maybe connected through another interconnecting system giving latency of 1-2 msec. Overhauling time frame could be different. Ground crews will need to specialize in at least two of these while still being able to maintain the 3rd bird. Transitioning from -1F to -1Z could be easier but the other two gunships would be different machines. 90 would mean 6 x Squadrons considering 12 per squadron while others are spare. Current gunship squadrons are 3 so basically doubling the force with better platform and weapon systems.

The fate of 48 x AH-1F has yet to be ascertained. The "jugaroo" way things work in Pakistan, these AH-1F can still be used in COIN Ops. A C4I team in Mi-17 equipped with MmW radar, 2-3 surveillance drones in air and a handful of AH-1F. The Mi-17 and drones guide the AH-1F to targets which takes them out through strafing or rickets or TOW/BS. There is low threat level of SAM/RPG in COIN war. The missing weapon is a FnF Missile. Integration of BARQ missile should have been considered for AH-1F and future gunship platforms.

If these 48 x AH-1F are not retired instead divided amongst I,II and V Corps as dedicated assets, this would give the Corps HQs more flexibility and firepower instead of requesting for gunships through Aviation Command or GHQ or Regional Command.

The need of transport heli will always be there. RVFC is providing mules for transport in mountain regions. A transport helicopter with adequate cargo space or sling load capability is a better option. Mules on tracks and trucks on roads in mountains can be a back up or otherwise size/weight restrictions of cargo. A dedicated Med Evac variant of transport helicopter with 4 x stretchers is needed since Field hospitals and specialized medical departments in CMHs are located at central places only.

Almost every US Divisional formation has an aviation brigade having 1 attack squadron and 2-3 transport squadrons. This may not be possible in divisional structure of PA but some Corps HQs can be assigned dedicated assets.
The original plan was 15 AH-1Z and 30 T129, so at least 3 squadrons with 15 helicopters each (I guess the PAA could break the units down further). However, in 2016 TAI hinted the PA was going to acquire a "large number" of T129s through the long-term.
 

python-000

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The original plan was 15 AH-1Z and 30 T129, so at least 3 squadrons with 15 helicopters each (I guess the PAA could break the units down further). However, in 2016 TAI hinted the PA was going to acquire a "large number" of T129s through the long-term.
Salam Bilal Khan bro what is the status of ongoing trials of Z-10ME & when we inducted them because T-129 take long time...
 

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