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Pakistan Air Force Mirages during the 1971 Air War

Discussion in 'Military History & Tactics' started by chindit, Jan 6, 2010.

  1. chindit

    chindit FULL MEMBER

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    Cant find the old thread but please merge if you find it

     
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  2. FulcrumD

    FulcrumD FULL MEMBER

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    Informative article no doubt,the MiG-21 fratricide is a news to me,did it really happen?who was the leader in that formation,if anyone can provide some link.

    Thanks.
     
  3. FulcrumD

    FulcrumD FULL MEMBER

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    The only fratricide happened was on 11th December'71 at Adampur,Flt Lt-A.B.Dhavle of 1st Sqn flying a MiG-21(C1107)was shot accidentally by another Mig,the above description is not fitting in this case,can anyone please elaborate on this?
     
  4. chindit

    chindit FULL MEMBER

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    whats not fitting in. If you ask me it fits the case.
     
  5. Windjammer

    Windjammer ELITE MEMBER

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    The menace of own goal, albeit always painful, is not just Indian specified, Under battle conditions, it's a common dilemma, Pakistan has had it's share of misgivings and Americans are well known for the terminology, "Friendly Fire". However what was even more astonishing was the shooting down of the Indian MIG-21s by the humble F-86s and
    the marksmanship of a Pakistan ground observer, who gunned down an IAF Mystere IV with his G-3 Rifle.
     
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  6. FulcrumD

    FulcrumD FULL MEMBER

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    Chindit,it's not fitting since the've mentioned two different names in the appendix(apdx#iii) or perhaps I'm mistaken.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2010
  7. chindit

    chindit FULL MEMBER

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    Shouldn't that be singular rather than in plural? I have read about only one incident when a F-86 downed a MiG. good effort though.
     
  8. chindit

    chindit FULL MEMBER

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    the foot note is for a different combat. not the fratrcide.

    can you edit out my name please. dont want trouble at work
     
  9. Windjammer

    Windjammer ELITE MEMBER

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    No sir, it has emerged that F-86s shot down a MIG-21 in each sector.
     
  10. chindit

    chindit FULL MEMBER

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    (I guess it pays to have the tail chopper history lying around :D)

    I have read the story on the west on Kaiser Tufails site.

    What is the story on the east? It might be an unconfirmed claim.
     
  11. Windjammer

    Windjammer ELITE MEMBER

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    Presently all i can disclose is that before being grounded due to runways being damaged, No 14 Squadron shot down 12 IAF aircraft in combat including Hunters, Gnats, SU-7s and a MIG-21.
     
  12. chindit

    chindit FULL MEMBER

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    Thanks. As per Indian records -

    No Gnats were shot down in the East.

    Several Hunters were shot down - three in air combat.

    1 Sukhoi was shot down - it went down to AA fire, The pilot was captured. even Pakistani sources confirm it.

    Two Migs were shot down and both were to AA fire.

    All the names of the pilots are available on the internet for the record.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2010
  13. Windjammer

    Windjammer ELITE MEMBER

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    The sole Gnat shot down during air combat in the Eastern Sector was on 22 November 1971. This was the very first encounter of the war.
    The battle took place over Chaughacha area with Wing Commander Afzal Chaudhry scoring the kill.
    As for the SU-7s, On 4th December, two were hit by Flying Officer Gul and Flt. Lt. Schames. Although both SU-7s managed to pull away but one IAF pilot ejected later. Another SU-7 was also shot down on the same day by Flying Officer Shamshad with a Sidewinder right above the PAF Base.
    The MIG-21 was also downed on 4th December, however by Sqn. Ldr. Javed Afzal.
     
  14. chindit

    chindit FULL MEMBER

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    Thank you. have you read Air commodore sajjad haider's book - Flight of the Falcon? He had pretty nasty things to say about Wg Cdr Chaudhry and his Gnat claim.

    However He did have lot of praise for the rest of the pilots.
     
  15. Windjammer

    Windjammer ELITE MEMBER

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    Although i haven't come across the book but i did contact Sajjad Haider on his face book, however i still await a reply.
    As for the engagement, India initially claimed to have shot down three F-86s but it later transpired into as one Gnat and two Sabres going down.