What's new

Pak went back on its F-16 promise to US. How India fixed the gaps with Rafale

Deltadart

FULL MEMBER
May 22, 2016
485
0
648
Country
United States
Location
United States
Indian might is only employed against toothless enemy. When it comes to the power on same level, it went to US to not to supply so & so missile. The irony is, itself was arming the force to the teeth. I don't understand that how on earth there is not a single person in India to tell them that instead of whining like that, you are armed & loaded so you should put a fight or stop bragging about the superiority. The worst thing is, they are asking everyone to not to supply the arms and yet claims big time that India will actually fight an enemy. It is safe to assume that decades of killings of Kashmiris have made Indian Forces like that to fight only an unarmed rival. Is there anyone to call upon their leadership in India and say that where the billions of expenditure is gone? Where was the Asian Raptor, mighty jaguars, the stealthy kind of Mirages and those Bison spears?

There comes the acknowledgment that IAF was totally outgunned on that day when it says that they saved more of the fighters merely because of escaping from battlefield. If that was the Force condition, they shouldn't have instigated at first. "more Indian fighters would have been knocked down on that day".

Now India brought AESA & long range BVRAAM, they have already upped the game so lets assume that there will be more of crying as such in future.
Very sound analysis, but banyas will always argue that they only try to use their diplomatic clout and beg to the western and other powers that coddle india, not to supply any weapons to pakistan that can punch holes in their dhotis. Obviously they only want to fight those with their hands tied behind their backs, literally. Even with all the weapons they have at their disposal, and their inflated egos that go along with that, they still can't fathom to fight with anyone who can fight back.
 
Last edited:

Dazzler

PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Oct 19, 2008
8,705
30
21,105
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Pak went back on its F-16 promise to US. How India fixed the gaps with Rafale

By Shishir Gupta, New Delhi
PUBLISHED ON FEB 27, 2021 06:52 AM IST

When the French President’s diplomatic advisor Emmanuel Bonne landed in India for a strategic dialogue on January 7, one of the key asks from the Indian Air Force was that the Rafale fighter’s technology, especially its missile capability, be kept away from Pakistan.

India conveyed to Bonne that even though Dassault Aviation, manufacturer of Rafale fighter, is selling the omni-role platform Rafale to Qatar, Paris should ensure that no Pakistani-origin person is given access to the plane by Doha.
Paris hasn’t just assured India that Rafale technology, specially that related to the Meteor air-to-air missile will be kept out of reach of Pakistan, but also that it will no longer upgrade the Mirage 3/5 fighters. India sought these iron clad guarantees after it burnt its fingers during Pakistani Air Force retaliation on February 27, 2019, a day after the Balakot strike.
On that day, Pakistan reneged on its promise to the Americans that it would only use F-16 aircraft in the war against terror and not against India. It was an 75-km range air-to-air AIM-120-C-5 missile, fired from a Pakistani F-16, that brought down Wing Commander Abhinandan’s Mig-21 Bison interceptor
on the Line of Control in the Rajouri-Mendhar sector.


According to former Air Force Chiefs and Air Marshals, had the Indian Air Force not practised with the premise that Pakistan would use F-16 and beyond visual range missiles against India, more Indian fighters would have been knocked down on that day. “We were very clear that Pakistan would use the F-16 against us and hence we practised to keep IAF fighters beyond what is called dynamic attack zone 1 and 2 or D-Max 1 and 2 of the AIM-120C air to air missile,” said a top IAF official who asked not to be named.
D-Max-1 refers to a range where a missile can “secure a kill” provided the opponent doesn’t engage in manoeuvring, and D-Max-2, a no escape zone from the incoming missile even after “all manoeuvring”, added this officer.


The Pentagon had previously assured India that Islamabad would not use the F-16 or the missiles against India. It conveyed the message to India after New Delhi requested Washington to put a software lock on the missile so that it cannot be used against India.
The Indian concern over the long range missile was raised by Air Marshal AK Gogoi as Director General (Air Operations) with the Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff Mike Mullen in Washington in September 2010. It was raised again during the visit of Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar in August 2016 with US Defence Secretary Ashton Carter in no uncertain terms. But all this came to no avail two years ago when Pakistan used the missile against Wing Commander Abhinandan's MiG-21 on Feb 27, 2019.


Analysts say that the F-16 incident may have well forced the Indian Air Force to acquire the Meteor missile for Rafale. The no escape zone of this missile is way beyond the missiles carried by US or Chinese aircraft flown by the Pakistani air force.

Try to get better com-jam, ew and esm equipment next time. You can't hit what you can't see.
 

Imran Khan

PDF VETERAN
Oct 18, 2007
58,071
2
114,178
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
This article author does not know what he is talking about. If PAF would not be using F-16 and AMraams against India then who would they use it against? Taliban donot have any airforce and Amraam cannot be used for ground targets. So if any guarantee was provided by USA to India, then India was a fool to believe that.
When did france upgrade Pakistani's mirages?
it was total 650mn$ AIM-120 missile was world largest AIM-120 contract that day
 

Deltadart

FULL MEMBER
May 22, 2016
485
0
648
Country
United States
Location
United States
LOL Indians got their rear kicked by PAF. Look at all these excuses. What excuses will India find after Pakistan wrecks the Rafale?
Excuses they will find, you can count on that...."raphal" is their new saviour, modi said so himself. When that illusion is shattered, so watch out france, vedic hinduvat fanatics will hound you on line till eternity.
 

airmarshal

ELITE MEMBER
Jul 28, 2010
8,334
9
10,549
Country
Pakistan
Location
Canada
India is such a nonsensical nation. Its so insecure, its always seeking 'guarantees' from weapons manufacturers that they will not sell technology to Pakistan.

USA clarified after Indian humiliation on Feb 27th that USA has put no restriction on Pakistan to use F-16s only for counter terrorism. Of course if this was the case, USA would not have sold AIM-120 to Pakistan. And as for repeated Indian admission of firing AIM-120, it proves that a second jet was shot down.

Cry with all your might, but you cant hide your embarrassment.
 

I S I

BANNED
Jan 25, 2015
9,690
-32
15,172
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
US: hey Pakistan here take these 2000 AIM 120C-5s to shoot down those Su30MKIs of TTP Airforce.
 

Khanate

SENIOR MEMBER
Sep 16, 2016
2,469
7
3,945
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
How dare US produce such weapons without India's permission? Cease and desist! :partay:
 

Pandora

SENIOR MEMBER
Feb 15, 2013
6,560
7
9,858
Country
Pakistan
Location
Australia
As usual dumb and stupid analysis from another stupid sanghi. Why would they sell us AMRAAMS AIM 120 if they didnt want us to use them?
 

Ghessan

FULL MEMBER
Feb 28, 2018
855
0
834
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Rafael being new savior, i wish next time a skirmish, just blow it out of skies.
a slap with one hand to the two of them, India and France.
 

The Maverick

BANNED
Jan 4, 2016
1,353
-15
1,128
Country
India
Location
United Kingdom
There is a saying ....There are 2 sides to a coin. Every picture or film is perceived differently.

27th February fact a mig21 shot down by f16 ...no denying proof is there.

mi17 shot down by indian own sam india.media confirmed yourselves.

however.no records of mki any where globally outside of pak claims . no official kill anywhere in the world.
no wreck no vedio no evidence
like wise indian claims of f16 kill.are also denied on same basis ie no evidence

8 f16 fired 4 amraams at just 2 mki on 27th
they all missed .... how and why

was it poor tactics ie not waiting for bleepers on screen
was excellent tactics from.2 mki pilots
or are the c5 amraams poor bvr

4 shots no kills is poor return
India openly criticised Russian older bvr after 27th and ordered latest versions of r77 and r27 and now is moving to.Astra,

and ordered new radio kits from.israel.
so lessons are learned.

India should not be outnumbered like it was poor show considering they 250 plus mki
not good enough
 

IblinI

SENIOR MEMBER
Jun 21, 2016
3,186
1
6,254
Country
China
Location
New Zealand
it came up short in one engagement lasting minutes, but lost no major asset ie

it was not outgunned in war or a campaign.

in full on war Indian bigger numbers,more weapons better air,defense systems and radars,and strategic depth and difference in resources and economy will prevail..

one of engagement lasting minutes is indicator not the conclusion

I like what India is doing
s400 is more than useful it's the best in it's class
Rafale is a dream lynch pin fighter
I hear istar deal is happening
but the biggest news is Tejas and Astra bvrs and soon uttam.Aesa radars . The mix of Indian and top notch israeli French usa, technology looks very promising.

We all saw how impressively India prepared for a war with China. it's air power was on show for the world to see
c17
il76
chinooks
Apache,
su30 mki
mirage
jaguar
mig29

all. moved form base,all over the sub continent to north India.

the logistics real.time Intel poise and rapid redeployment was enough for plaaf to pack bags and go home

complaceny can be very dangerous

don't stop running on the tred mill.

because India will.keep.inducting more new systems home made and from abroad

at this moment in time pakistans answer to 15 billion dollar investments in s400 and Rafale has been 50 thunders.
that is it
talk of j10c is speculation
the,deals for Rafale and s400 were signed 4 years,ago and pakistan air Force have not done a thing to answer the new evolving threat
Mr maveric again back with your useless list and absoulte zero knowledge on militarty matter, people with even a little knowlegde would have not say things like "it came up short in one engagement lasting minutes, but lost no major asset.” There are million stories and planning behind sunch engagement.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom