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Pak to start production of high tech Al-Khalid 2 tank

iLION12345_1

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Only imp fact is here what will the actual timeline of AK2 and what will specifications set.
Indeed, and only time will tell. But I trust the project and the people. I knew the project manager of the AK1, was my classmates father, AK2 was already in development at that time too. I’m sure they will not disappoint now that things are back on track. IA we will see it soon. Until then we are set with what we have.
 

Scorpiooo

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Indeed, and only time will tell. But I trust the project and the people. I knew the project manager of the AK1, was my classmates father, AK2 was already in development at that time too. I’m sure they will not disappoint now that things are back on track. IA we will see it soon. Until then we are set with what we have.
Inshallah, We need this program success for PA and Pakistan future.

This will lead us to our next gen tank one day
 

volatile

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unless private sector gets involved all major projects in India and Pakistan will end up cost over runs and delays
 

S.Y.A

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People tend to forget HIT has many problems but most of them are related to management It has to make New tanks, APCs, upgrade older ones, Rebuild SPHs fix the tanks that are too damaged to be fixed in the field.
An honest question: why doesnt HIT build other factories in other areas of Pakistan, isnt concentrating all of that in one place a mistake? there should be at least 2 rebuild/upgrade factories, one each in north and south, separate from the current facility. The existing facility can be freed up, expanded and may only be used for only R&D and production of new tanks/APCs.
 

iLION12345_1

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An honest question: why doesnt HIT build other factories in other areas of Pakistan, isnt concentrating all of that in one place a mistake? there should be at least 2 rebuild/upgrade factories, one each in north and south, separate from the current facility. The existing facility can be freed up, expanded and may only be used for only R&D and production of new tanks/APCs.
Wherever the military has bases there are workshops in it that can handle most of the repair and maintenance of equipment. So such workshops exist everywhere, Karachi, Lahore, Multan, Rwp so on.

Military equipment is only sent to HIT (or in a majority of cases, to 502 central workshop, which is in Rawalpindi and not taxila) when it needs some very major service, an upgrade or a rebuild, which happens once every few years or so.
In case a war does start and say a vehicle gets damaged in Lahore, it will not need to be sent to HIT/502 for repairs or maintenance unless it needs a very major rebuild, most of the stuff can be done at the Lahore workshop. the difference here is that the 502 and other similar workshops are army workshops while HIT
is a company. The army needs to pay HIT for whatever they need, they’re a customer. Meanwhile these workshops are the armies own, manned by EME guys.

While I would still support more major ordinance factories in other parts of the country, factories of that scale cost a lot of money, while we are still having trouble financing one to its max capacity (or rather we did in the past), and making such ordinance factories is the job of the state and not the military. The army on its own has ample workshops where needed :)
 

dilpakistani

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Chootay hotay sai sun raha hoon Alkhalid 2 ayai ga... ab tu yea wali aunty ban gai hain hum wait ker ker kai... Per na aya bie Alkhalid 2 ... lai dai kai MBT 2000 pai hi nai phool bootay bana kai aur 2 4 cheezien laga kai Al-khalid 1 nikala uss mai bhi 20 saal lag gai ...
 

Shabi1

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Indeed, and only time will tell. But I trust the project and the people. I knew the project manager of the AK1, was my classmates father, AK2 was already in development at that time too. I’m sure they will not disappoint now that things are back on track. IA we will see it soon. Until then we are set with what we have.
The original specs for the AK2 are way too similar to VT4. My guess is they reevaluated AK-2 at some stage and decided they need to make a fresh set of specs for next gen requirements as the original specs were already available in VT4/Oplot. Buying VT4s achieved what original AK2 aimed to perform.
Ukraine is working on a next gen tank similar to Armata, won't be surprised if AK2 turns out similar.
 

Scorpiooo

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The original specs for the AK2 are way too similar to VT4. My guess is they reevaluated AK-2 at some stage and decided they need to make a fresh set of specs for next gen requirements as the original specs were already available in VT4/Oplot. Buying VT4s achieved what original AK2 aimed to perform.
Ukraine is working on a next gen tank similar to Armata, won't be surprised if AK2 turns out similar.
Good news, PA can get in future if afford
 

iLION12345_1

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The original specs for the AK2 are way too similar to VT4. My guess is they reevaluated AK-2 at some stage and decided they need to make a fresh set of specs for next gen requirements as the original specs were already available in VT4/Oplot. Buying VT4s achieved what original AK2 aimed to perform.
Ukraine is working on a next gen tank similar to Armata, won't be surprised if AK2 turns out similar.
The specs are not similar, because we don’t even know the specs for AK-2, so idk how you came to that conclusion. Any comments made about a new turret or a bigger engine are purely speculative. AK-1s original variant was further upgraded to bring it closer to modern spec before it started production in 2020, So there is some possibility in the fact that they will delay AK-2 and make it into a next gen platform above VT-4, but I wouldn’t expect such a major leap just yet.

Also I would like Pakistan to be as little dependent on Ukraine and their products as possible. Ukraine has quickly fallen behind when it comes to tank technology due to their internal issues and monetary issues, they cannot deliver that well on the things they promise. Especially when it comes to ammunition and high-tech subsystems, what Ukraine is good at is the basic principles of tanks, like armor and engines, which is where we can get help from them. Pakistan should not and likely will not buy any more ukaranian tanks if Ak-2 stays on track, because self reliance is always better. Pakistan can make it’s own next gen tank with the help of Ukraine, China and Turkey instead of buying a foreign one, I just don’t think AK-2 will be that tank unless they massively delay it. But we can always hope, either way we don’t need to be worried because for now AK-1 and VT-4 are far ahead of anything india has, or has planned for the future.
 

waz

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I agree we have our fair share of issues, especially in the backwardness of military leadership, but people really overhype them to the point where they forget what we’ve already accomplished. A lot of our progress issues came from WoT, but it also helped us progress in other fields, a good portion of our issues our own slowness caused too.

On a more technical note: India has no T90MS in service or on order. That’s been debunked many times. Their initial order was canceled and now they Only have more base models on order. They only operate base model T90S with no improvements other than a thermal imager. Currently they have about 1150 of them. Plus 1900 T72s (of which about 1000 are modernized and the rest are obsolete). Plus 176 Arjuns (Mk1 only).
The biggest weakness of India is their ammunition. They only started inducting Russian rounds from the 80s in late 2019, most of them use even older ammo from 70s. Their standard rounds have penetration lower than what our local rounds had in the late 90s and early 2000s. The rounds they are buying now have 450mm/0 deg at 2km (local ones have even lower at 300) compared to our 600 and 650/0 deg 2KM. Plus only their T90S and modernized T72 can fire those rounds. The rest stay obsolete.
They also use K5 Second Gen ERA in 2021, all Pakistani tanks have moved on to 3rd Gen FY4, Nozh or Aorak 2.
I made a detailed comparison here in post 2669.

I’m not one to underestimate the enemy by any means, but tanks are one place where Indian superiority is vastly overhyped. In just a few years time we will match them in numbers, we’ve already surpassed them in tech.

Depends on what you consider “expensive” to be. Turkey needs a rather small number of tanks compared to Pakistan. They, like most European countries go for a small number of highly advanced, big and expensive tanks, meanwhile Pakistan needs a much larger number, so we go for smaller, cheaper, but somewhat less capable ones. Pakistan could get Atlay, but then we’d be going against our doctrine where we need to balance capability with cost and not go full capability-high cost. This is where AK hits the mark and Arjun has completely missed. Arjun is entirely out of place both size and prize wise in the India-Pakistan tank doctrine. They need the same type of tank as us (which they did with T90 and T72) but then cocked it with Arjun.

JF17 is based on the same cost effective, high number Principle, where tejas costs 4x more and is similarly capable, thunder is 4x more numerous due to better planning of project. Turkey again would go for a small number of F35 or something of the sort, capability over numbers. Meanwhile we would go for Jf17 over bigger expensive aircraft.

basically all these expensive options are open to Pakistan, but unless you’re a country with unlimited money like USA, you either go for cost effective in large numbers or more capable in small numbers, and the former suits Pakistans doctrine more in all cases, wether it be air land or sea.
Good post.
I feel there is scope for a force multiplying aspect of a smaller number of Altays. But the tank is taking a while.
 

iLION12345_1

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Good post.
I feel there is scope for a force multiplying aspect of a smaller number of Altays. But the tank is taking a while.
That is true, it could be used in special cases in small numbers, as we would have to redo our logistics systems to use them in a larger number, especially since they share no parts with what we operate.
Atlay is supposed to be a next gen tank like T-14 and the upcoming new American design, plus with all the issues Turkey has been having with the west, it’s uncertain how many more delays the tank may face, if it does end up in production by the end of this decade, it could be a potent force multiplier.
 

AZADPAKISTAN2009

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The production level is too low should have constructed 7,000 Tanks in 20 years
Figure of 300-500 tanks in 20 years is quite low
 

iLION12345_1

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The production level is too low should have constructed 7,000 Tanks in 20 years
Figure of 300-500 tanks in 20 years is quite low
As discussed before a major part in that was played by budgetary constraints due to war on terror. The money was taken from these development and procurement projects to be pumped into the operations, that’s why the navy fell so far behind too, their entire budget was absent. HIT always had a capacity for 50+ tanks a year but this could never be achieved. Some years AK wasn’t even produced due to these issues.
The good news is things are finally back on track. They are now making 35 tanks a year and will increase it to 50/year by 2022, hopefully HIT can be expanded after that like PAC was.
 

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