• Sunday, January 19, 2020

Featured Pak Navy Should Reduce The # of Subs To Buy Type 054 Frigates

Discussion in 'Pakistan Navy' started by MastanKhan, Aug 1, 2015.

  1. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin SENIOR MEMBER

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    agreed give it about 3-4 years for a frigate deal to materialise
     
  2. RazorMC

    RazorMC SENIOR MEMBER

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    With our limited budget and priority for cost-effective hardware, I also feel subs are the way to go. They offer the most benefit per dollar compared to surface vessels.
    Pakistan's military has not been about power-projection, but simply to deter aggressors and prevent large-scale conflict. In this scenario, it is again the subs that fulfill their roles well.
     
  3. Ray_of_Hope

    Ray_of_Hope FULL MEMBER

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    Nope.Subs r definitely the way to go forward.Firstly,build a good under water fleet and then go for frigates and destroyers
     
  4. Areesh

    Areesh ELITE MEMBER

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    From subs. Yes.
     
  5. al_asad_al_mulk

    al_asad_al_mulk BANNED

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    Can you update me on why Pakistan not armed F-22 with Babur C.M i believe few years back they fired Conistered Babur.
     
  6. Areesh

    Areesh ELITE MEMBER

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    No VLS. Because of the size. F22P are simply not big enough. Same like Augusta 90b. Would have to go for something bigger like Type 054a.
     
  7. al_asad_al_mulk

    al_asad_al_mulk BANNED

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    As i believe after few retro fittings they can mount on F-22 but reasons are must be political. For exaple we have PNS Alamgir quite big enough to be armed with Babur C.M. Since Babur is nuclear capable so there would be some political or strategical reasons not to do so apparently.
     
  8. Areesh

    Areesh ELITE MEMBER

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    Well with F22p no political reasons. It is because of the technical reasons. PNS Alamgir is an American ship and I don't think they would allow Pakistan to tamper with their given ships. PN would also prefer a new surface platform for Babur CM. In my opinion with a next two years we would hear something concrete about new frigates.
     
  9. al_asad_al_mulk

    al_asad_al_mulk BANNED

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    Waiting for that may be our scientist facing some technical challenges in development of such system or we currently don't have platform for induction.
     
  10. ghauri05

    ghauri05 FULL MEMBER

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    There is one problem, Even we integrate babur on these subs,the range of babur is approx. 800Km.
    Which is not good enough for 2nd strike capability, if we compare it with the K-series of India
    Any senior want to comment on that
     
  11. Gufi

    Gufi PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    800 KM from different points

    upload_2015-8-1_16-57-1.png upload_2015-8-1_16-54-42.png
     
  12. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 PROFESSIONAL

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    The naval variant will have a greater range.Infact eventually we will have the tech to achieve 1500km range with Babur
     
  13. Gufi

    Gufi PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    These two are the least ambitious in the event(impossible) that our submarines are in our waters and have not even ventured into Indian waters. As silent submarines with 8000 nautical mile range it is very much possible that these submarines will be heading deep inside Indian waters to maximize damage...
    The issue is too be able to cause enough to deter attacks, and once second strike capabilities are achieved, war will mean whatever damage we are able to do by land(aiming for areas where submarines can not reach with the rest left to nuclear submarines... even by most cautious estimates inside our own waters these submarines can cause massive casualties, moving forward nearer to areas like Mumbai or Goa will make most Indian cities easy targets...
    Granted, a range of 1500 Km would make life so much easier

    meri dil ki baat cheen li :P

    upload_2015-8-1_17-15-19.png

    1500 KM radius @farhan_9909
     
  14. Arsalan

    Arsalan MODERATOR

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    Not a problem. The missile launched some 300 400 Km from the land will still be able to strike targets 400 Km inland, that is enough. We do not need to compare with Indian missiles, they have there own requirements and they address them accordingly. Also a 800 Km SLCM will be better then no SLCM at all. We can improve the system and extend its range as the platform is developed further. For now, i think a 800 Km nuclear armed SLCM will give a decent 2nd strike capability. In future if we can get a 1500km to 2000km range missile (highly probable) that will address the issue once and for all as it will cover all of India even when launched some 500 Km from land.

    Also there are chances that with these subs we will buy some submarine launched cruise missile from China as well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2015
  15. Psychic

    Psychic SENIOR MEMBER

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    @MastanKhan
    You are right that our navy should have invested in a potent frigate (not F22p) and that a fair balance in the number of frigates and submarines should have been mantained.

    What I am sensing is that you are downplaying the role of submarines. Today's subs are not the subs of WW2, which had no ability to fight back if detected. Plus the damage which a submarine can inflict either preemptively or in some surprise attack can be significant.
    Remember in 1971, PNS Hangoor had in it's range IN battle group on 2nd Dec.But it wasn't cleared to engage at that time.
    Imagine what havoc Hangoor would have wreaked on IN battlegroup with a salvo of deadly acoustic homing torpedoes.
    Another tid bit is that khukri and kirpan were dispatched because the transmission sent by Hangoor gave away it's position.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2015