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Featured Pak Navy Should Reduce The # of Subs To Buy Type 054 Frigates

Discussion in 'Pakistan Navy' started by MastanKhan, Aug 1, 2015.

  1. waz

    waz MODERATOR

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    The thing is the navy would be looking to retire the old Agosta 70's, and therefore this urgent replacement prompted the order for the submarines. The 054A's will be coming, especially since Pakistan has started the early phase of building the lighter F22 frigates. I suppose the next deal will be for a considerable number of frigates to increase the size of the surface fleet.

    I'd go as far to say that if Pakistan had the budget to completely create a new air wing for the navy that is in excess of 60 planes. They train amongst themselves, they fly patrols, sorties etc and have nothing to do with the PAF.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2015
  2. General General

    General General FULL MEMBER

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    2-3 more surface ships will be added before the last sub joins the navy. #Watch this space.
     
  3. Donatello

    Donatello PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    60 is too much. We need deterrence, which when needed can go on the offense. This means a squadron of JF-17s along with a squadron of heavies....(18+14) units would be more than enough. Heavies can be JH-7, J-10 or if lucky, flankers from China/Russia.

    In a perfect world, we'd have a navy at least as potent as Turkish one, but can't because of the funding issues......6 type 21 Amazons are to be retired, or as i was told by DCNS projects, two are already being stripped, so you need at least 6 ships to make up that loss, plus more for expansion. Gwader is not relevant today at all. Hardly any trade or ships calls there. However, the seeds that need to be sowed are very relevant today. In 15 years time we are looking at some serious growth.
     
  4. Providence

    Providence BANNED

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    Would be a stupid move.

    The 054 in my opinion won't be able to hold on against the new line of destroyers in indian navy's armoury.

    On the contrary the subs offensive power might even be on the low end but it's ability to strike a psychological doubt among sailor's minds can be invaluable in a war.
     
  5. MastanKhan

    MastanKhan PDF VETERAN

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    Hu,

    The things changed at a lightening fast pace during the onslaught of yemen crisis---. Iranian navy was busy.

    Most of you guys are just reacting and not reading the post----. You can change the order to 5 subs----it will take many a years to get those 8 subs.

    You can divert some funds to frigates---pak navy is woefully low on surface combatant ships. Surface ships see more day to day activity than the subs will ever see. Your surface fleet stops problems from emerging and becoming issues---.

    If we have an option to lease then we must lease---it takes years of training for the crew to be at their best. The thing is that the navy needs a potent frigate and F22p is a little too small.

    A mid sized frigate that you would get now---in 2 to 3 years time your crew will be able to perform competitively.
     
  6. Rafay Jamil

    Rafay Jamil FULL MEMBER

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    Sir in my talk with a navy official, he said that PN itself refused OHPs,something about depth clearance in the port,they were too deep to come into the shallow port and the one we got was on request of United states itself .According to him it was to counter growing chinese influence in our navy.But your statement suggests otherwise can you please clear up on this point.
     
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  7. MastanKhan

    MastanKhan PDF VETERAN

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    Hi,

    I think that 24 is a good number for JH7B type aircraft and being complimented by a similar number of JF 17's.
     
  8. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin SENIOR MEMBER

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    Funny hahahaha


    well if a kid is 35 years old then you must be quiet old indeed. i research defence and politics at a top British university.
    what do you mean by "You can talk smart and that is fine---but it won't take you far."?




    when you have a sub outside of a adversary port there is no point in sending out a ship as it would be suicide.
    you would find ship at sea and being replenished by tankers/replenisher. yes i am very well aware when a sub surfaces or even uses it's snorkel its postion is comprimised and is in fact a sitting duck. but with advancement's in aip technology more in particular fuel cell and some stirling aip's are very efficient and are have good endurance. maximum they can stay submerged is about 30days at 8kn's which is very good. nuclear subs can stay underwater for as long as they like dependant on food. but you dont have nuclear subs.



    these points are based on "what if" so im not going to attempt to answer.


    ships are one of the front line system a navy has. but in your case "pakistans" subs are more useful than frigates. as it keeps the adversary on it toes. they can see a sip and know where it is but a sub is completely different.



    when you mean surface ship as policemen im assuming the surface ships is the coast guard thats there job. the navy is defending a country and it's interests

    you right in the sense that Pakistan does need frigates. lets face it the f22p is a very light frigate. and speaking to an analyst who specific in Pakistan's military. told me Pakistan needs at least 12-14 frigates with at least 4 being in the anti air-role. if you have the financial capability then its a possibility. and at least 6 destroyers.

    it's a start i guess.
    SBP to set up centers of excellence in Islamic finance at 3 institutions | Pakistan Today
     
  9. Super Falcon

    Super Falcon ELITE MEMBER

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    I agree with you but if u want havier than go for destroyer they have more fire piwer than any frigate and with it our navy will be having multi type platforms rather than one dimensional force
     
  10. vizier

    vizier FULL MEMBER

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    Recently usa tested tomahawks against surface ships. It theoratically has 1000km range launched from submarines or surface ships. So instantly the aim is to cover all naval targets at once.
    Submarines cant be detected by radar so they are less vulnurable. They can launch cruise-antiship missiles as well. To counter anti submarine measures mini surface stealth boats can be bought or developed. China and Iran both have those mini boats.
     
  11. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin SENIOR MEMBER

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    dont you think with Pakistan spending a huge amount of money on subs, frigates is sort of out of the question for now?
     
  12. VelocuR

    VelocuR SENIOR MEMBER

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    I already mention similarly to your topic. However, submarines are most important than warships, let's induct more heavy submarines punch then warships soon. Almost every countries in the world to focus on Navy except Pakistan.

    Pakistan's 0 warships against India's 200 warships

    :(
     
  13. Super Falcon

    Super Falcon ELITE MEMBER

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    Hope PN usses some sense
     
  14. Zarvan

    Zarvan ELITE MEMBER

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    No need to reduce order of submarines but yes as we have ordered 4 F-22 P we also need to get 4 Type 54 A and also go for some good corvette at least 4 of them also
     
  15. shah1398

    shah1398 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Pakistan has been following the policy of playing smart since very start. The main reason was funds constraints. It holds good for Air Force and Strategic Missiles.So rather than crowding the seas with Frigates in large numbers it would be more appropriate to get potent submarines in less numbers. By law submarines have more chances to survive and hit back at enemy n number of times even if spotted/ detected by Sonar, anti submarine aircraft n Heli, Submarine killer frigates etc. In case of frigates either U r gone or the enemy when detected.