• Monday, December 9, 2019

Featured Pak Navy Should Reduce The # of Subs To Buy Type 054 Frigates

Discussion in 'Pakistan Navy' started by MastanKhan, Aug 1, 2015.

  1. MastanKhan

    MastanKhan PDF VETERAN

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    Hi,

    There is an issue with pak navy---. It does not have a potent frigate---. The F22 P are lightweight Frigates---.

    The navy must have something that is heavier and more potent. The thing is that the situation in the region is changing by the day---on one side is India and on the other side is Iran coming into the game as a new player.
    The Arabian sea is suddenly going to get crowded and there will be power positioning in the region. The U S navy is going to be pulling out its aircraft carrier out of the region pretty soon and with Gwadar port coming into operation---pak navy does need the presence of a stronger surface fleet.

    Pakistan navy should reconsider the purchase of 8 submarine---and reduce it by 2 or 3 at this time. It should rather invest 1 billion dollars in 2 TYPE 054 Frigates and 3--4 upgraded version of Type F22P class frigates.

    In 2 to 3 years from now---it can increase the order for the submarines.
     
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  2. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 PROFESSIONAL

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    Well i believe that out of the 8,we should dedicate 4 of them only for 2nd strike.

    Each Sub with atleast 12xBabur SLCM

    Total 48xBabur SLCM deep within the sea with each Babur having warhead of upto 90-140KT yield
     
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  3. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin SENIOR MEMBER

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    you must have hit your head on something hard. frigates are easy targets whilst subs are not. a sub can stop ship leaving a port whilst a frigate cant and will get hit and sink. i think Pakistan should buy/develop some more subs. this should hold of any navy. and from my reading Pakistan navy have got something in for the aircraft carrier.
     
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  4. Rashid Mahmood

    Rashid Mahmood MILITARY PROFESSIONAL

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    No sledging please.
    Everyone has the right to put up his opinion.

    We need Subs at this point of time as part of our second strike capability.
    Frigates will follow....
     
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  5. cb4

    cb4 ELITE MEMBER

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    Time for change. Navy must get stronger. Army walas have been taking most of the defence budget.
     
  6. kaonalpha

    kaonalpha FULL MEMBER

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    6 lakh army vs mere thousand sailors. Budget per year .do the math.
     
  7. MastanKhan

    MastanKhan PDF VETERAN

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    Hi,

    At my age it is not the first time and it won't be the last time either that I hit my head.

    Kid---you are a new poster and have enthusiaism in your posts----but you don't know didley sh-it about subs and submarine warfare. You can talk smart and that is fine---but it won't take you far.

    Subs don't stop ships from leaving----they can either sink it or lay dormant----because once the sub surfaces or displays it location---it becomes vulnerable---once it stops at ship--- The moment the subs displays its position---it is doomed---it is dead----that is the analogy that it works under.

    What if the ship is a decoy and is carrying depth charges---or that if a ship is a decoy and there is a anti submarine helicopter sitting on its decks under a tarp ready to take off----or what if the ship is a decoy and has an anti sub aircraft lurking in the skies a short distance away.

    The surface ships are important---as a matter of fact they are more important under all circumstances---you never want to show the position of your subs under any circumstances unless you attack.

    The surface ships act as policemen and take charge of any activity taking place on the seas.
     
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  8. cb4

    cb4 ELITE MEMBER

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    Thats why i'm saying, 'time for change'.

    Many countries beef up their Navy by adding modern air force fleets and squadrons. Pakistan must do this as well due to threat of Indian blockade in the East, India - Chahbahar Nexus in the West and US carrier dominance in the South.
     
  9. Mr.Meap

    Mr.Meap FULL MEMBER

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    As much as I like PN to possess a large surface fleet, our fleet didn't fair off do well. Only the submarine fleet saved our face, not to mention detecting submarine is costlier, hence puts pressure financially on our rivals.
     
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  10. kaonalpha

    kaonalpha FULL MEMBER

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    Ok , but have you ever considered that there is a specific branch in the Navy which deals with procurement. At this time Acquiring new surface vessels is like building Burj Khalifa in a year. We have an option and that is to acquire ships off the shelf from china on lease and as the Gawadar network trade expands. The influx and influence will allow us to acquire state of the art ships. For the time being pray that navy doesn't waste money on luxury housing scheme.
     
  11. araz

    araz PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    Could you elaborate a bit and tell us how you perceive the navy to develop in the next decade. Iam gathering that the whole àcquisition cycle will take around 10 years to devop and establish.
    Araz
     
  12. Muhammad Omar

    Muhammad Omar ELITE MEMBER

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    We need Frigates But this doesn't mean that we didn't need subs...

    Hope to See some Frigates deals soon too Type 054 or Type 052
     
  13. Imran Khan

    Imran Khan PDF VETERAN

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    scrap the deal spend money for demolish madrasas and open schools .
     
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  14. Donatello

    Donatello PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    From what i know, there is a long term plan in the making for the PN. The reason to go for 8 submarines is that soon you'll be having 2 Agosta 70s retiring, meaning by the time first Chinese sub is delivered, you'll be down to just 3 Agosta 90s, which will be nearing their refits (first boat made in 1999). Submarines will take a long time to sign, assemble and then sea trial. So the Idea is that you will have a minimum of 4 boats, and then every year or so you add 1, for a total of 11 AIP boats.....out of which at anytime 8-9 would be available for Patrol. Now that is a decent submarine fleet going in 2020s.

    Ships on the other hand can be procured at anytime. PN knows that it doesn't have any heavy duty frigates, and that OHP debacle really thew the spanners in the work. So unless they get 5 more OHPs and get them something like GENESIS upgrade in the next couple of years, i don't see the US route happening. So Ships too will come from China.
    Now the quoted figures for Submarine deal is 4-5 billions, which comes to about 700 million USD per boat.....that is an outrageously high cost for a 2500 ton sub class....you can have Scorpene/Type 214 in that money. So i think the deal involves some ships as well, improved F-22ps or Type54. But since the source would be China, and they have some really credible offerings for ships, i think PN considers Submarines more of a headache to customize and assemble than ships. Submarine technology is a whole lot different engineering than Ships. So when they see fit, they can order the ships and fast track them. I think China would be generously financing the loans on low interest, because a sizeable navy in Pakistan's own hands assures them that IN is kept busy on that front as well as the fast growing Chinese navy.

    But at the end of the day, no one can deny that 5000ton air-defence frigates are the need of the hour along with a potent land based aircraft strike force.
     
  15. kaonalpha

    kaonalpha FULL MEMBER

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    What I'm trying to say is that correct me if I'm wrong. The Army has risen from 6 to almost 7 and a half lakh.Ok . Now say Iif we are to divert half the budget for the navy. You have half of the budget left which is to be split two ways. Now that buget is used for maintaining upgrading and inducting new ships irrespective surface or underwater, it is still a small force . Your remaining two military branches army and air force which are bigger and have more manpower and more equipment will be facing problems to sustain themselves in the minimum amount of money. Hence your sacrificing budget for a force that has little role in an actual war and you compromise on your actual fighting force.

    Thus you wait until the economy improves raise the budget and it be as such that all braches get a handsome share. But for now sit back and relax.