• Tuesday, September 17, 2019

Pak-China Economic corridor, details and implications.

Discussion in 'Seniors Cafe' started by Jungibaaz, Apr 23, 2015.

  1. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz MODERATOR

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    This thread I thought I'd make to address some of the very odd comments made by some posters rejecting the proposals or threatening to have them stopped, or general opposition without any substance.

    Ground rules before I get started. If you criticism is that the projects are heavily Punjab orientated and that this is unjust, fine, please tell us why, and what should be done about it. Calls for violence, separatism, and any hate/racist comments will be removed.

    So if you are going to post, let's talk details. Have a meaningful discussion here.

    So firstly, I've seen maps being thrown around by naysayers and advocates. The advocates have no idea what all those colourful lines mean and the naysayers seem to think that only one super road, rail is being made directly to Kashgar.

    To remind you all, a total of 51 MoU's were proposed in the announcements. Most of which have been approved. A few of which are either under construction, to undergo construction or are already completed.

    Details of agreements signed during Xi's visit to Pakistan - - DAWN.COM

    This is the number most often being thrown around; $45.6 billion USD for various infrastructure and energy projects.

    China commits $45.6 billion for economic corridor with Pakistan| Reuters

    Already the feasibility is looking good on these projects.

    One of the 3 credit rating agency's Moody's had this to say:

    The current status of the various projects of the 51 MoU outlines, are as follows, the below list also indicates which province the projects will be located in, or meant for use in, note that the energy projects need not be based for use in only one province:

    projects.png

    Sources:

    List of Pakistan-China MoUs

    Ministry Of Planning, Development & Reforms – Press Releases - Note that in this link, there are 3 pages worth of articles and statements about projects, many projects are discussed here that are not part of the above list, and have not been included, and many are not Punjab based.

    http://nha.gov.pk/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Confirmed-Minutes-of-238-Executive-Board- NoteMeeting.pdf Note- this document contains the various project outlines from the above list including others in more detail, including the length of construction between places and current status, feasibility and funds cleared for use. Reference for this. http://www.adb.org/sites/default/fi...0/reiwp-117-economic-corridor-development.pdf

    http://pu.edu.pk/images/journal/pols/Currentissue-pdf/zahid6.pdf - This document and others like it discuss the above issues, and include further details about the implications of the first on the list of Gawadar port with regards to TAPI and Iran Pakistan gas pipeline projects, which are not province specific.
    Pakistan has to keep pace with China on economic corridor: Iqbal - Pakistan - DAWN.COM More non-Punjab centric details, here, quoted source for 3rd on the list, Karachi Peshawar main line.

    People also should note that the maps being thrown around against this tend to show one weird looking line diverted through the along the coast of Balochistan and then cutting into Punjab and through the areas of northern Punjab. Little do they talk about the significance of the existing Karakoram highway as part of these plans. There are plans for expansion of the current Karakoram highway as a part of these projects, included, in the above list of MoU, accepted after feasibility studies.

    Details of agreements signed during Xi's visit to Pakistan - - DAWN.COM Again note the proposed graduation locations, non-Punjab. Abbottabad included.

    For every bit of recently proposed project for Punjab based energy projects, there are more in Sindh and Thar, and other provinces. A few of which are included in the list as: Gwadar-Nawabshah LNG Terminal and Pipeline Project, 70 MW Hydro-Electric Suki Kinari Hydropower Project, Port Qasim 2x660MW Coal-fired Power Plant, Jhimpir wind Power project, Thar Block II 3.8Mt/a mining Project, Thar Block II 2x330MW Coal Fired Power project, Dawood Wind Power project, Hubco Coal-fired Power Plant Project.

    Compare that to Punjab's list: Zonergy 9x100 MW solar project in Punjab, 720MW Karot Hydropower Project, Facilitation Agreement on Salt Range Coal-fired Power Project between CMEC and Punjab Government.

    Now if that wasn't enough to put some ease to that shouting and anger about the supposed route change.

    The above points are not to be ignored, new proposed routes are not the be all and end all. In fact, they've been called interim by Ahsan Iqbal too. Pak-China Economic Corridor: Senators issue ominous warning over route change - The Express Tribune

    The fact is, the CPEC is far more diverse than one diverted road for you to oppose. Even that has reasons beyond, just bias. The Chinese are weary of getting involved where there are security concerns.





    This is the reason why these security teams have been made specifically for these projects, thousands of Chinese engineers, and billions of dollars have been pumped into this, and to keep these projects safe from insurgency in Balochistan and KPK is a top priority, it's strange then why all these parties are petty enough to want to jeopardize their own future and spoil the plans of each others' governments as they have been doing in the past.

    Army creates one China specific Division

    Also, the security concerns and some proposals are of China's own making, and it is the choice of the parties involved, see here.

    Wu Zhaoli, an assistant research fellow at the National Institute of International Strategy, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences had this to say:

    Economic corridor will be lever for all of South Asia - Global Times

    Lastly, if all that isn't enough to put to rest all these fears, this useless rhetoric and senseless bashing, here's something to chew on:

    Route alignment controversy




    Another controversy has been stirred like the Kalabagh Dam and the motorway alignment.
    The controversy could go on for long and damage the national cause yet again.
    There is no sensible reasoning in opposing the route alignment under the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC).

    The basic idea behind the building of the CPEC was to link up the deep-sea Gwadar Port to Kashgar in western Chinese province of Xinjiang.
    This is a transit route facility to be given to China.
    In return, many areas along the route will be developed, boosting the economy of Pakistan as a whole.

    The route alignment connects all four provinces including Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan.
    To say that route has been altered by the government is not true as multiple feasible studies have yet to be carried out.

    Led by the Awami National Party (ANP), an All Parties Conference was held on 17 February in Islamabad that demanded ‘not to accept the alternative route to be built under the CPEC’.

    It is ANP that also led the controversy against the construction of the Kalabagh Dam in the 1980s.
    This time the party is not leading a solo debate.
    Many parties have joined it.
    They are the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI), Jamiat Ulema-e-Islama (JUI-I), Watan Party, Balochistan National Party, National Party, Pakhtunkhwa Milli Awami Party (PkMAP), Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP), Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) and some members of human rights organizations and civil society activists.

    They demand that the route must go through Balochistan and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (KP) so that the smaller provinces, neglected areas and backward communities can gain the benefits of the CPEC.
    They believe that the map of the original route was changed by the government.
    They want Quetta and southern districts of the KP to be a part of the proposed route.

    The route connects the whole of Pakistan to China.
    It is well-connected and balanced considering the geographical conditions of the country.
    Balochistan, Sindh, Azad Kashmir, Hazara and Gilgit-Baltistan would be well-connected by the CPEC.
    Hazara Division would occupy the most central space under the CPEC.

    In fact, about 1000 km area of Balochistan will be covered under the route if it goes from Gwadar to Turbat, Awaran, Panjgor and Khuzdar.
    If the route goes from Gwadar to Quetta and then Zoab, the Balochistan area that would come under the route would be 1300 km or about 50% of the total route.
    Is the province being exploited?
    Similarly, over 400 km area of Hazara Division comes under the route alignment.
    These districts are Haripur, Abbottabad, Mansehera, Badagram and Kohistan.
    If the alignment was made from Quetta to Zoab and then to Dera Ismail Khan, the KP area would extend to another 210 km, increasing to 610 km and the KP area share would increase to 23 % if the total length of the route would become 2,658 km from Gwader to Quetta, via Zoab, D.
    I.
    Khan to Hasanabdal and to Kohistan.
    Is it exploitation of the KP province?
    From Dina the route goes into Mirpur and then to Muzaffarabad by decreasing the distance of 150 km via Rawalpindi.
    The route would connect to Muzaffarabad through a road from Balakot and Garhi Habibullah.
    The Mirpur-Muzaffarabad route will be around 260 km, having a share of 10 percent of total route alignment.

    The CPEC is not a ‘Punjab-dominated’ project.
    If the upper route was adopted, only Bhakkar, Mianwali and Attock districts would be connected and the area of the route would be around 433 km or 16% and if the route comes from Rahim Yar Khan to Hasanabdal, it would be 865 km, increasing Punjab’s route share to 33% understanding that Punjab is the second largest province in terms of area.

    The proposed sites of freight terminals and industrial parks would include Gwadar, Turbat, Panjgur, Jacobadad, Kholu, Loralai, Dera Ghazi Khan, Rajanpur, Kashmore, Bhakkarm Abbottabad, Gilgit and Sust covering Balochistan, Sindh, Punjab, KP, and Gilgit-Baltistan.
    It should also include some parts of Azad Kashmir.

    It is not true that Balochistan and KP would be deprived of opportunities to be gained under the CPEC.
    It is wrong to suggest that the route is avoiding those areas where insurgency has been going on.
    Therefore, the CPEC route alignment controversy is baseless and an unfounded reality only meant to delay the project that is going to be inaugurated when the Chinese President visits Pakistan in April.

    There is no question of depriving or neglecting backward areas and districts disturbed by terrorism.
    Terrorists have been hunted out throughout the country, not just in specific areas or districts.
    Not only technological considerations will be taken into account, but distance and economic feasibilities will also be considered by planners, geographers, civil engineers and other experts.
    Routes should not be based upon political considerations and propagandas.


    n The writer is Senior Research Fellow at the Institute of Strategic Studies Islamabad.
    He is an expert on Japan.

    Dr Ahmad Rashid Malik



    Route alignment controversy
     

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    Last edited: Apr 23, 2015
  2. Al Bhatti

    Al Bhatti SENIOR MEMBER

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    Similar to what i said earlier in another thread

     
  3. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz MODERATOR

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  4. Muhammad Omar

    Muhammad Omar ELITE MEMBER

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    Bahawalpur to have $1.5bn world’s largest solar power plant

    ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has awarded $1.5 billion contract for its largest solar power project of 900MW in Bahawalpur to a Chinese company which has the biggest solar power plant of only 170MW back home.

    After concluding a final round of meetings with Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and Water and Power Minister Khawaja Mohammad Asif on Wednesday, Zonergy Company Ltd President Yu Yong told journalists that his company had a total portfolio of 1,200MW of solar plants in China and the largest one was 170MW plant in Xinjiang.

    He said the company had an association of over 17 years with Pakistan. Previously, it had been engaged in telecommunication sector through another company ZTE since 1998.

    He explained that Zonergy was not a subsidiary of the ZTE, but one of the largest shareholders in the ZTE was also the largest shareholder in Zonergy.

    Mr Yong said there was a need to address concerns regarding Pakistan’s national grid’s conversion system to accommodate fluctuating renewable energy sources.

    “The 900MW solar project launched in Quaid-i-Azam Solar Power Park in Bahawalpur is the largest solar power project in the world,” he said.

    Najeed Sadiq, a Zonergy director, said the first 50MW unit would be brought into production on Aug 14 this year, to be followed by another 250MW on Dec 25, to coincide with the anniversary of the father of the nation, and then 100MW would be added every month. He said the full 900MW capacity would be available by the end of next year.

    He said the China Exim Bank and China Development Bank had provided funds for the project.

    Mr Yong said solar power generation has become a global focus because “it is clean, renewable and safe”.

    Around 1.271bn KWh of electricity is expected to be generated annually from the solar power station, which would cover a total area of 4,500 acres. It is also expected to create at least 3,300 jobs.
     
  5. Muhammad Omar

    Muhammad Omar ELITE MEMBER

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    Energy generation projects under CPEC to be completed by 2017: Ahsan

    Thursday, 23 April 2015 00:34
    Posted by Imaduddin

    ISLAMABAD: Minister for Planning Development and Reforms, Prof. Ahsan Iqbal here on Wednesday said that energy generation projects worth US$ 28 billion under China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) to be completed by the year 2017 which would help 2-3 percent growth in national GDP.

    Addressing a press conference flanked by Federal Minister for Information and Broadcasting, Pervaiz Rashid, the minister said that ground-breaking and launching of these projects were held during the recent visit of Chinese President Xi Jinping to Pakistan.

    He said that out of these energy projects, two hydel projects would take 5-6 years for their completion adding that government was determined to starting all projects on priority basis to overcome energy shortage in the country.

    Highlighting the significance of CPEC in economic development of the country, he said that the project would prove a game changer for the whole region.

    He informed that during the 2-day successful visit of Chinese President Memoranda of Understanding for several developmental projects worth US$ 45 billion were signed as a major portion of these projects were comprising energy generation.

    Ahsan Iqbal said that the investment in these projects would not be considered as a loan rather it would be on investment mode and the sector was open for any other country for investment.

    He said that energy generation projects from water, solar, hydel and wind would be started in all the provinces, including FATA and Azad Kashmir, which would help fulfill the energy demand of the country.

    The minister said the huge coal reserves in Thar would also be exploited to produce about 6000 MW of electricity, which would help uplift this area and alleviate poverty.

    In a high level meeting, he said that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has directed the concerned departments for swift implementation of these projects and asked the Planning Commission to supervise all the development projects activities.

    He said the Prime Minister himself would monitor the implementation of these projects and warned that no slakeness in this regard would be tolerated as the project would help enable the country to become Asian Tiger.

    Chinese President Xi Jinping in his address with the joint sitting of the Parliament said that the CPEC project was for all provinces which would equally benefit all areas of the country.

    Prof.Iqbal said that the Chinese President had expressed his resolve that China was standing behind Pakistan for becoming the Asian Tiger as it was announced by the Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif in 1990.

    Rejecting the criticism and negative propaganda unleashed by Indian media, the minister said that CPEC was not against any country or region but it would play key role for the development of the entire region.

    Ahsan Iqbal said that during 2001 the media was terming country a safe haven for terrorists and now in 2015 it was terming the country as the most attractive destination for trade and investment.

    He said that CPEC would encourage other countries and boost their confidence for making investment in different sectors of national economy which would further develop the economy.

    Appreciating the role of media for creating national consensus of this project he called for discouraging the misleading and propaganda elements who were spreading conspiracies against the project.

    Replying to a question, he said that CPEC would open new avenues of development for all provinces as Gwadar Port be upgraded and 14 km expressway would be constructed besides construction of a modern airport would create opportunities for the costal areas of Balochistan.

    He said that 20 km long iron bridge would be constructed in M-17 which would connect Balochistan with Punjab besides dualization of Indus Highway for development and prosperity of Sindh province.

    To another question, he said that no fund of CPEC project would be used in any 'orange line' or metro bus project of Punjab adding that Punjab government was spending all amount on such projects from its own provincial budget.

    He further said that federal government would support any province for initiating mass transit project as government has provided resources for the establishment of green bus project for Karachi.

    To a question, he said that all the energy generation projects were on investment mode where as Chinese government would provide concessional loan of US$ 11 billion for 15-20 years for the infrastructure development projects.

    Ahsan Iqbal informed that work on all CPEC routes would be initiated adding that Gwadar to Sohrab 400 km road which would link the port, would be completed by 2016.


    Copyright APP (Associated Press of Pakistan), 2015


    PM orders removal of irritants from corridor projects

    [​IMG]
    Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif ordered completion of all procedural formalities and removal of irritants in the way of $28 billion ‘early harvest’ projects to be set up by China by 2017. — AFP/file


    ISLAMABAD: A day after the departure of Chinese President Xi Jinping, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif ordered completion of all procedural formalities and removal of irritants in the way of $28 billion ‘early harvest’ projects to be set up by China by 2017.


    Planning and Development Minister Ahsan Iqbal said at a news briefing on Wednesday that Mr Sharif had presided over a meeting of the ministries and agencies concerned to get a rundown on the proposed projects and agreements signed under the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor (PCEC).

    Read: Economists call for more transparency on corridor projects

    He said the meeting had decided that the Planning Commission would be a focal point for coordination and monitoring of implementation of the projects while the prime minister himself would hold weekly meetings to review progress.

    He said the prime minister would travel on the western route of the corridor over the next few days so that people could come to know about the original route, instead of relying on misconceptions being created by vested interests.

    Mr Iqbal criticised ‘hidden hands and some politicians’, and also India, for trying to make the multi-billion dollar framework controversial.

    Minister accuses some ‘hidden hands’, politicians of creating controversy
    He said that projects worth about $37bn were pure investments by China while another $11bn portfolio was in the form of soft-term loans to be repayable in 15-20 years.

    This put the total figure at $48bn unlike the rounded off figure of $45bn he had been quoting in previous press conferences and written statements.

    Also read: Fazl says govt creating confusion over corridor route

    Answering a question, the minister said the issue of mark-up on the $11bn loans was in final stages of negotiations and, therefore, he could not give an exact figure. But, he said it would be the lowest rate available to Pakistan from around the world. To give just an idea, he said normal commercial loans at present ranged between four and five per cent while the Chinese loan would be lower than half this rate.

    He alleged that some hidden hands had flooded concocted maps of the PCEC routes on internet to create confusion and India was repeatedly showing these maps on its television channels which showed where these maps were coming from. Because of these, he added, the project had been delayed for eight months.

    He said the corridor was now a project of national development and progress which should be supported by the entire nation as no province or area would be left out in this great initiative. The elements trying to instigate provincialism should be identified and singled out because the success of the PCEC now depended on national unity and cooperation.

    He said it was unjustified on part of the opposition parties to criticise metro bus or Orange Line mass transit project in Lahore or other cities of Punjab. He said the provincial governments were fully empowered and financially viable to plan and set up similar projects in their provinces. If the Punjab chief minister was working hard for the development of his province, others should not criticise him.

    He said the PML-N government had never obstructed development projects proposed by any province and would welcome the governments of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Sindh to carry out similar projects. On the contrary, he said, the prime minister had decided to gift the Green Line mass transit project to Karachi out of federal resources.

    Published in Dawn, April 23rd, 2015

    Mechanism devised for early implementation of Chinese MoUs: FO

    [​IMG]
    The spokesperson also mentioned that the Pakistani leadership has gone to Saudi Arabia for consultations with Saudi leadership regarding the conflict in Yemen. - Press Information Department photo


    ISLAMABAD: The Foreign Office spokesperson Tasneem Aslam during a weekly briefing on Thursday, said that a mechanism has been devised for early implementation of memorandums of understanding (MoUs) and agreements signed by China and Pakistan during the Chinese president's visit to Pakistan.

    "PM Nawaz chaired a meeting soon after the Chinese president's visit, and it was decided that there would be regular monitoring of these projects," she said.

    In response to a question, Aslam said that other countries in the region should also realise that early completion of the Pak-China Economic Corridor (PCEC) would be in their interest as well.

    The spokesperson also mentioned that the Pakistani leadership has gone to Saudi Arabia for consultations with Saudi leadership regarding the conflict in Yemen.

    Read: PM Nawaz, Army Chief depart for Riyadh

    "Pakistan welcomes Saudi decision to halt air strikes against Yemen, and hopes that would pave the way for peaceful settlement of the conflict," Aslam said.

    She also said that after the killings of 20 labourers in Balochistan, an operation was launched against criminals and a number of them were arrested who shared important information with the authorities. However, she added that she is not aware of any letter written to the Indian government on the matter.

    She went on to mention that the Pakistan High Commission in New Delhi has approached Indian authorities regarding the capture of a Pakistani boat, however, no information has been shared with Pakistan yet.
     
  6. Kabira

    Kabira ELITE MEMBER

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    "He alleged that some hidden hands had flooded concocted maps of the PCEC routes on internet to create confusion and India was repeatedly showing these maps on its television channels which showed where these maps were coming from. Because of these, he added, the project had been delayed for eight months."

    Clearly this is India's doing, no wonder maps are going around with straight lines.

    [​IMG]

    Actual routes

    [​IMG]
     
  7. ajpirzada

    ajpirzada PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    so this what i get from the link provided... I have only included the projects on which proper agreements have been signed. No MOUs or Cooperation stuff is included in this list.

    KPK is getting $2.7 billion whereas Balochistan only gets peanuts amounting to only $0.37 billion. All else goes to Punjab and Sindh.


    upload_2015-4-23_16-19-33.png


    I wonder what has 'Multan - Sukkhur' motorway and 'orange line' got to do anything with the CPEC? None of the cities fall on the CPEC route which is:
    Given that Balochistan is literally getting nothing from the recently signed agreements, would it not have been better to use this 'loan' towards connecting Gwadar with Quetta and Ratedero? Work on both these routes is going on since ages and at very slow pace. NHA only got Rs 36 billion out of the Rs 111 billion they were supposed to get from this year's PSDP. And all this is happening when Ahsan Iqbal is complaining of running out of funds for ongoing projects: Fiscal management: Govt scrambles to find development funds - The Express Tribune

    As much as this project is important for Pakistan, our political elite is least bothered about Balochistan.
     

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  8. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz MODERATOR

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    Multan - Sukkhur' motorway is the section of the larger KLM (Karachi Lahore Motorway) visible in this map (see below) by the NHA, the brown route.

    I think it there needs to be a very clear distinction between PCEC, MoU's, third party investments, and outlying projects now all brought under the umbrella of this list of projects.
    So while that part of the LKM is not directly part of the Khunjrab (and Kashgar) to Gwadar motorway, it still falls under the larger list of related project, just not under that specific highway and PCEC designation.

    Also, I completely agree with your idea in the previous thread that the government ought to make this clearer, and be more transparent about it.
    There was already have supposed to have been work on going on the Gwadar to Ratodero motorway. M8, long before this government came along. Again according to my first post it's an 820km road still under construction after so many years, pending completion by the end of this year.

    I know you've not counted the MoU as of yet, but there was a lot more I read in them about Balochistan, proposals, on top of the work already completed on Gwadar and what's more to come. None of these figures include the entire cost and investment that has already been made and construction complete in Gwadar.
     
  9. Yeti

    Yeti BANNED

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    'So China is providing a grant? not a loan? What s the investment yield for the project? how much is China going to get in return on their initial investment? I doubt all of the money will come into fruitarian as last time various MoU's were signed it did not boil down to hard FDI on the ground.
     
  10. Tameem

    Tameem SENIOR MEMBER

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    3x1320MW coal base powerplants in Punjab??
    Absolutely Wrong!

    Nishat Coal is a private project with main sponsors main sponsor on behalf of the consortium are, comprising Nishat Mills Limited, Lalpir Power Limited and Pakgen Power Limited, it has nothing to do with Chinese investment.

    There is only one Coal base project in Punjab with Chinese help since 2014 and that is in Sahiwal.
    I don't know where you got news for Muzaffargarh.

    List of power stations in Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  11. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz MODERATOR

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    This is the issue were all having here. It is very difficult right now to understand what's investment by third parties, local investment and not FDI. And what falls under PCEC, and all other routes and outlying projects.

    Everything seems to have been announced as part of the 'economic corridor', within that you have Chinese MoU's which contain finalized and yet to be finalized investments, some still pending approval, some already completed. And within the economic corridor projects there are several other local projects that have nothing to do with FDI, and then there's collaboration projects which there are a few of.
     
  12. ajpirzada

    ajpirzada PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    Well if i take your argument of many different set of projects being clubbed together under one umbrella, which makes sense, then there is very little left for the CPEC in the recently signed agreement. You will have to agree with me that Baluchistan is getting nothing here. To an extent, same is the case with KPK.
     
  13. Yeti

    Yeti BANNED

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    He said that projects worth about $37bn were pure investments by China while another $11bn portfolio was in the form of soft-term loans to be repayable in 15-20 years.

    Wonder what sort of yield they would get for their investment, soft loan would be around 2-3% interest typically.
     
  14. ajpirzada

    ajpirzada PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    the list of agreed projects are mentioned here:

    Pakistan has to keep pace with China on economic corridor: Iqbal - Pakistan - DAWN.COM
     
  15. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz MODERATOR

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    This is true ONLY IF you count undergoing projects and recently finalized proposals. The Gwadar project is much older than any of these more recent projects, the port and proposals back during the early PPP years had half a billion dollar investment, which was completely neglected in the years between 2009-2011. There were other investments there too that are nowhere to be found in any recent news or this thread such as Saindak copper project.

    And if you also count the MoU's approved and finalized, it does not seem that Balochistan has been neglected. Not least in my opinion. Also, I don't see any of these projects further up this economic corridor or the PCEC itself if the investment and infrastructure was not already in place or completed.