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PAF speeds up fighter force modernisation with JF-17 Block III- Gulf News

satyamev

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It is unfair to compare the industrial capacity of India and Pakistan.
India is a country with a population of 1.4 billion, you should compare your industrial capacity with China.



You should see the benefits of this project for the overall technological upgrading of Pakistan.
comparing industrialization on basis of population ? never heard such a yardstick.
China with a 5 times population of usa is still not as sophisticated in its industry as the US .
Whether jet engines or chip manufacturing , etc.
Let's not get off topic.
If you expect Pakistan to manufacture a jet inhouse, that also a 5th gen , it needs a minimum industrial base.
Equating India with Pakistan is not correct.
I agree with making a start but aviation is over ambitious for a country like Pakistan.
They should first concentrate on its basic industry.
 
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aviation is over ambitious for a country like Pakistan.
Aviation is our basic need so it is basic industry for us.Once we successfully produce fifth gen.fighter jet with Turkey/China,it will increase our design and manufacturing capabilities in aviation industry.
We are also aiming at Avionics development.We are already quite successfull in Unmanned air vehicles development.
Actually after JF 17 project, Pakistan is quite confident about the development of aviation industries.


JF 17 gave us aviation factories,but NGFA will give us aviation industries (Insha Allah).
 

tphuang

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I know some people, including Westerners wants SK-Indonesia KF21/IFX to fail.

Those Westerners journalist are cluelest about Indonesia. I have explain a lot about the matter, but people like you of course want to believe on news that is accordance on his / her wish
No I couldn't care less about such a program. I'm simply pointing out that modern fighter jet development is hard and turbofan engine development is even harder. And all of which is expensive. I understand that as a fan of local Indonesian industry, you want it to succeed. So, there is no point for me to get in a debate here.

yup. Modern jet engine manufacturing is the pinnacle of modern engineering.
Even the established manufacturers face issues when trying to optimize new engines , like the PW engine gearbox issue in the Airbus 320 neo. 100s of incidents in the plane.
What's your assessment of snecma France as a engine manufacturer ?
As I posted on SDF, I would rank them as follows
Tier 1:
GE, RR, PW
Tier 2:
Safran (Snecma), MTU
Tier 3:
China, Japan and Russia

Snecma and MTU are all important part of the final production of modern high bypass turbofan engines, but they are not the lead developers on their respective partnership CFM and IAE. The gap between tier 1 and 3 is pretty large. They should be more capable of developing military engines than China and Russia, but they haven't thrown in the resources for it. That's why their latest engine is still M88-2, which really isn't more advanced than what China/Russia have.

India won't acquire stealth 5th Gen planes for the next 2 decades , atleast.
Because usa won't sell them to india as we are considered too independent in our foreign policy (s400).
Russians are going nowhere with their stealth plane.
I see us inducting more rafales , unless France suddenly emerges with a stealth plane which its willing to sell ?
So a lot of maybes.
Our indigenous aviation industry will go nowhere under HAL.
It has to be privatised for India to truly enter aviation manufacturing as a serious player.

That's a really pessimistic view to have. The Europeans are bickering so much that they will just be late to the game. It's funny to me the British are calling the Tempest a 6th gen fighter. It looks very 5th generation to me.

India's best option for 5th generation is Su-57 but I'm not sure it's stealthy enough to be considered 5th gen. At some point, I would imagine US will be offering F-35 to India. I can't imagine India will have to wait until 2040. US and China will be onto 6th generation by then.



There is no way Pakistan will have to wait until 2040s for 5th gen based on where China's development is right now.
 

Trango Towers

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Turkey hasn't got a clue how hard it is to build a domestic engine industry that's competitive. It just got stun by the American sanctions and trying to sound strong. It took over 20 years for China to build the domestic engine industry they have today and catch up with a Russian one that hasn't moved much. It's still 20 years behind GE/RR/PW. These things are not easy, but China has finally seen the fruit of its investment in the past 5 years.

PAF's best hope for 5th generation aircraft is FC-31. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It has the full backing of Chinese government. Navy version came first, but land based version will come soon enough.
Lol Turkey hasn't git a clue yet its leads the world in drones and lazer tech. Its also now a major weapons exporter and just go back 1 to 2 decades and they were totally depended. When nations move they can move fast
 

satyamev

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Lol Turkey hasn't git a clue yet its leads the world in drones and lazer tech. Its also now a major weapons exporter and just go back 1 to 2 decades and they were totally depended. When nations move they can move fast
the heart of Turkey's drones , the imaging and targeting systems - are imported from canada.
But Turkey is nearly a developed country and manufacturing jets is not beyond the realm of possibility. But first a normal 4th gen jet and then on to 5th gen.
 

Trango Towers

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the heart of Turkey's drones , the imaging and targeting systems - are imported from canada.
But Turkey is nearly a developed country and manufacturing jets is not beyond the realm of possibility. But first a normal 4th gen jet and then on to 5th gen.
Euro fighter. Collaboration of many nations
End fresh aircraft snd weapons import parts...recent issue with missile sales to Egypt and a simple American part that blocked the sale.
Other than Indians no one reinvents a wheel. Off the shelf solutions are employed
 

satyamev

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Euro fighter. Collaboration of many nations
End fresh aircraft snd weapons import parts...recent issue with missile sales to Egypt and a simple American part that blocked the sale.
Other than Indians no one reinvents a wheel. Off the shelf solutions are employed
After the last conflict, Canada blocked all exports to Turkey of the systems.
The critical components have to be sourced from reliable suppliers or mfd inhouse. The non critical can be made in case of a embargo.
I am well aware Turkey has the technical ability to make jets.
Issue is always of obselance for new manufacturers. By the time they get enough indigenous jets on the ground, your rival might have acquired better jets from established makers.
 

Trango Towers

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After the last conflict, Canada blocked all exports to Turkey of the systems.
The critical components have to be sourced from reliable suppliers or mfd inhouse. The non critical can be made in case of a embargo.
I am well aware Turkey has the technical ability to make jets.
Issue is always of obselance for new manufacturers. By the time they get enough indigenous jets on the ground, your rival might have acquired better jets from established makers.
Might might might if we live on that then we will never do anything.
Even the f35 is manufactured globally. Shit happens. That's life we have to adapt.
Remember Pakistan purchased everything from American China and the west. Now we make most stuff but still import a significant amount.
 
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After the last conflict, Canada blocked all exports to Turkey of the systems.
The critical components have to be sourced from reliable suppliers or mfd inhouse. The non critical can be made in case of a embargo.
I am well aware Turkey has the technical ability to make jets.
Issue is always of obselance for new manufacturers. By the time they get enough indigenous jets on the ground, your rival might have acquired better jets from established makers.
But another country can join TFX program.Then it will not only fasten the development of NGFA but also divide the cost of development work.

Turkey's main enemy is Greek which is a small country and can't afford 5gen.fighter jets in large numbers.So Turks have time to properly work on their TFX.
 

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