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PAF Reveals Bayraktar Akinci, TB-2, WL2 and Establishment of National ISR and Integrated Air Op Center in a Newly Released Video

JamD

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I will reiterate the policy of Pakistan for the other audience because they still don’t want to hear it.

Pakistan will ONLY develop something indigenous if it cannot source it freely from a supplier or if the requirements are not met by a supplier.
Yup.

Stated as a coherent argument:

Pakistan will ONLY develop something indigenous if it cannot source it freely from a supplier or if the requirements are not met by a supplier.

BECAUSE


... the PAF cannot afford to sink money long term into R&D, which is something required for R&D. Consequently, PAF has less appetite for risk, low patience and high/unrealistic expectations...

...Everytime PAF spends money on R&D it takes money away from operational expenses and procurement. So it's kind of admirable the kind of R&D they are able to do. In an ideal world the PAF would focus on the air force and a dedicated R&D arm of the PAF or a separate aerospace industry that is independently funded would do the R&D. Hopefully, our economy and people at the top will allow for such a setup to evolve. There is some desire to do so in some quarters at least. Fingers crossed.



EDIT: my hope is that AvRID is an AFOSR prototype
 
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Ali_Baba

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LoL I see your game, trying to passive aggressively attacking our Chinese brethren, I repeat you know nothing, both China and Turkey are our close strategic allies and providing us with military, political, economic and diplomatic help and vice versa.

Ali baba and bleek are the same person, some poor injun.

eerrmm..

How do you know that I wasn't talking about the Americans and their refusal to sell Pakistan MQ-1 Predators during the height of the War on Terror so that Pakistan could take care of Indian sponsored terrorists in Pakistan on its own?

So - you are wrong on your first theory...

And you are also wrong on your second theory - i am me and i donot pretend to be anyone else on this forum. If this really concerns you - you are welcome to ask the Admins of this forum to cross-check the IP-addresses for posts being made on this site to confirm ...
 

farok84

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This Akinji poem was written by Ustad Yahya Kemal, who was a poet and a diplomat. He was the first Turkish Ambassador to Pakistan. There is a photo in PDF showing him and Jinnah together. It was his last posting for he fell ill and died after returning from Pakistan....

Life is indeed a connection of dots....
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tphuang

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TEI is also working on TF-6000 turbo fan engine, which is based on the core of the TS-1400 turbo shaft engines. Cores of the turbo engines are basically the same....
Right, building turboshaft and turbofan engine is the same thing. Lol, the kind of hilarious stuff that I read sometimes. And both of which are obviously years and year away from actually being ready to be reliable and used in production aircraft.

MIUS has entered into the structural integration phase. First flight is in 2023. It's a full fledged 0.8 to 1 mach unmanned combat jet with 1.5K kgs of payload. Ferrying range is 500 NM and can stay in air for 5 hours. Will have AESA radar, EW, WVR/BVR, low radar cross section, aggressive maneuverability etc. Advanced AI would render the opportunity to mold and train these beasts into the images of the respective Air Command and Staffs. If PAF goes for MIUS, it has the capacity to implement and execute the doctrines, tactics, aggression and intelligence of its legendary air warriors who bring havocs on the Indians....

View attachment 823543
View attachment 823545

So you are promoting a half complete model of a drine with just 500 nm ferry range and 1500 kg payload! as PAF's solution for BVR and WVR. Maybe you should think about why Turkey is talking about buying Eurofighter typhoon again.
 
Mar 8, 2021
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There is some desire to do so in some quarters at least
At decision maker's level or just in minds of people who are not in top positions (whose opinion doesn't matter to decision makers)?

On the side note: PAF still had to fund the projects is because of their own sheer incompetence.Had they grown PAC with top (Civ/Mil) engineers,competent marketing experts,merit based selected Managers/Directors from day one,PAF would have been earning dollars from PAC instead of giving them money for R&D.
Instead PAF gave important positions to military officers whose area of expertize was combat not business.So here they are now.

Do you know the structure of AvRID as an organization? Some civilian merit based structure or again same old school PAC like structure (mil officers controlling Business & R&D matters)?
 

JamD

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At decision maker's level or just in minds of people who are not in top positions (whose opinion doesn't matter to decision makers)?
I am talking about AvRID and NASTP. These seem like efforts to separate R&D from PAF in a formal way. So people in top positions whose opinions matter obviously. Keep in mind that the sucess of AvRID/NASTP is contingent on the steady supply of funding for decades. Now if Pakistan's economy doesn't pick up and PAF has to fund AvRID/NASTP then a) there will be resentment in the PAF since less funds will be available for the actual PAF and b) AvRID/NASTP will not have enough funds to be successful (only enough to be a waste). This is why there are people in the PAF that both support and oppose these R&D arms.

On the side note: PAF still had to fund the projects is because of their own sheer incompetence.Had they grown PAC with top (Civ/Mil) engineers,competent marketing experts,merit based selected Managers/Directors from day one,PAF would have been earning dollars from PAC instead of giving them money for R&D.
Instead PAF gave important positions to military officers whose area of expertize was combat not business.So here they are now.
I agree that there is lack of foresight on PAF's part. But you can also argue that PAF is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Instead PAF gave important positions to military officers whose area of expertize was combat not business.So here they are now.
That is criminal, I agree. There's a certain arrogance and momentum, which says only we (PAF officers) can do this and everybody else is incompetent. I'd like to hope that this is changing. And on topic, this is especially because the PAF is seeing the Turkish success story.

Do you know the structure of AvRID as an organization? Some civilian merit based structure or again same old school PAC like structure (mil officers controlling Business & R&D matters)?
I have written about hiring practices on the Azm thread so I won't repeat here. There's a majority of civilian and inexperienced young engineers led by equally inexperienced (in the fields they are managing) but older PAF officers. This separation between PAF and R&D (if successful) will take time. AvRID/NASTP are possibly the first steps towards a long journey.
 

Goritoes

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Its good to see that Pakistan armed forces are modernizing all its branches, we can not afford to leave any branch weak because of the rising threats from the East, From IN subs to clashes on LOC to a full on air battle in 2019, we have pass through every major non War steps and next is a War which we must prepare for. I do not wish for a War but if Indians keep the same irrational behavior towards Pakistan, then a war is inevitable.
 

Reddington

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Lots of military acquisition has taken place in last one year from all three armed forces. Now I hope we induct Z-10ME and AH-1Z before the end of this year.
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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I am talking about AvRID and NASTP. These seem like efforts to separate R&D from PAF in a formal way. So people in top positions whose opinions matter obviously. Keep in mind that the sucess of AvRID/NASTP is contingent on the steady supply of funding for decades. Now if Pakistan's economy doesn't pick up and PAF has to fund AvRID/NASTP then a) there will be resentment in the PAF since less funds will be available for the actual PAF and b) AvRID/NASTP will not have enough funds to be successful (only enough to be a waste). This is why there are people in the PAF that both support and oppose these R&D arms.


I agree that there is lack of foresight on PAF's part. But you can also argue that PAF is stuck between a rock and a hard place.


That is criminal, I agree. There's a certain arrogance and momentum, which says only we (PAF officers) can do this and everybody else is incompetent. I'd like to hope that this is changing. And on topic, this is especially because the PAF is seeing the Turkish success story.


I have written about hiring practices on the Azm thread so I won't repeat here. There's a majority of civilian and inexperienced young engineers led by equally inexperienced (in the fields they are managing) but older PAF officers. This separation between PAF and R&D (if successful) will take time. AvRID/NASTP are possibly the first steps towards a long journey.
The necessity for domestic projects comes from the rising cost of importing equipment. If we can steer the Pakistani economy to a path where it's able to support importing weapons, then that's the most efficient way to build our defence capability. However, the key here is improving the economy. We need to source our energy domestically so as to cut our import bill. We need to enforce localization policies across auto, appliances, etc so that the OEMs manufacture these things in Pakistan and re-export them to other markets. We need to upskill our workforce so that they can absorb more pro-localization policies. If we do all of this, then yes, defence will become pretty economical.

Unfortunately, we have a provincial government in Sindh that wants to destroy its (and one the country's) key economic engines, Karachi. So, in the end, who's going to champion education and upskilling the workforce? Who's going to champion localization? Who's going to aggressively hold foreign companies accountable (to their localization commitments)?

However, the PAF can't sit for the domestic industry to figure something out. Yet, it's slowly reaching the point where it'll have no other choice but to wait, or tack even more loans and debt on our exchequer. However, the latter can only go so far.
 

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