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Outgunned By Pak F-16s, IAF Plans To Re-Arm Its Sukhois With Israeli Missiles

Reichsmarschall

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Lol..you people are eating your own press.

The facts are -

On 27th, 24 PAF fighters, fought against 8 IAF fighter, in that confrontation a single IAF MIG 21 was shot down, besides that, not a single target was hit, and there wasn't a single casualty on ground.

Su 30 is still a better air dominance fighter than F-16 any day, all needs is an equivalent missile to AMARAAM C5.
The trillion $$ question is what stopped your Airforce from scrambling their entire fleet even though we had given them a prior warning? Did the pilots refuse to fly on that day? was abhinandan only pilot with balls big enough to engage intruders?
 

Osiris

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Lol, the number of 24 and 8 comes from your side (pathetically embarrassing media of yours)...and we already know how shamefully ur media has been lying to protect india’s humiliated and defeated arse.

Secondly, if you are being honest, you and me both know that PAF never wanted to hit and cause casualties. Our DG ISPR said so from the get go. PAF strikes were a message and that’s why open areas were intentionally bombed. Had iaf hit anything and caused causalities inside our land, we would have done the same (or are you THAT gullible to think we wouldn’t have or we didn’t have the capability?)

In all fiasco, the ONLY confirmed casualties happened all on indian side.

Whether it was jets going down, pilots getting captured, or military personnel dying during skirmish (Helicopter getting shot down in panic). The entire world saw images and news of ONLY indian side losing...whether pilots, jets, helicopter going down etc. That’s why even NY Times called the whole fiasco “humiliating episode” for India (direct quotes :) )

PAF came out on top as extremely capable and iaf came out as incompetent and weak, once again.

1. What was the number that came from your side ? DGISPR claimed that out entire airforce was airborne.

2. If there were no ground casualties on Indian side, as it was your intention was to hit nothing, then why did DGISPR claim, that there were 24 casualties on Indian side. Did your airforce miss its target?

3. On 26 th Feb, when IAF intruded and hit inside Pakistan proper(and not Kashmir), there wasn't any dog fight, there werent any missile launches. PAF was no where in the picture at all. No PAF aircraft dared to pursue, IAF aircrafts into India.(as IAF's did on 27th).

On the other hand IAF reaction time was much shorter that the PAF, despite the fact a Mig 21 being lost in duel.
 

airmarshal

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It has to be said that American weapons are top class. Su-30 has array of French, Russian and Israeli avionics and weapons. Yet it was outclassed by MLU F-16 of 1982 to 1985 era.

Interestingly, this report is coming from Indian source yet Indians here are in denial.
 

AUz

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No matter what excuses, and spins you try to write now, it would not change the fact that indian military got humiliated on 27th Feb. The entire "balakot strikes" episode turn out to be embarrassing for india on international level. Not only NY Times, but an indian analyst at MiT also wrote that entire fiasco was humiliatingly defeating for indian military (he was discussing the helicopter shot down fiasco).

I can post the link of the article if you want ;)

So I don't know what's the point of this even?


1. What was the number that came from your side ? DGISPR claimed that out entire airforce was airborne.

Wrong. DG ISPR never claimed that. He stated that indian jets tried tried to enter the Pakistani airspace from three sectors (Kashmir, Lahore, and Bahawalpur... IIRC). He said the largest party was on Kashmir sector (12 jets, I believe).

This is now International Media reported on the issue


Kashmir Conflict: Embarrassing failures for India

So please, don't exaggerate and lie just to save face. It won't happen. Iaf got humiliated and defeated by PAF yet again. You can't change the fact by exaggerations, spin-offs, and fairy tales.

2. If there were no ground casualties on Indian side, as it was your intention was to hit nothing, then why did DGISPR claim, that there were 24 casualties on Indian side. Did your airforce miss its target?

PAF hit the intended targets. Right after the strikes, DG ISPR clearly stated that targets were open-areas in Brigade HQ.

It were you (indian side) that was claiming 300 killed or whatever....and ended up getting utterly laughed at when entire international media reported that no evidence of any casualty was found. Furthermore, Atlantic's DRS labs published the photos of Madrassa standing untouched (verifying Pakistani claims).

indians were exposed and humiliated on world stage again, and again, and again (whether it was 300 killed claim, destroyed Madrassa claim, or shooting down of F-16 claim. All of those claims were debunked by every single independent observer)

3. On 26 th Feb, when IAF intruded and hit inside Pakistan proper(and not Kashmir), there wasn't any dog fight, there werent any missile launches. PAF was no where in the picture at all. No PAF aircraft dared to pursue, IAF aircrafts into India.(as IAF's did on 27th).

:lol:

Is that what you tell yourself to sleep at night and cope with the humiliation we inflicted on you? The fact is that iaf used the surprise factor and cowardly launched its weapons at stand-off range and left. Your own ex-IAF commander wrote an article about the fact that nearest PAF air base from Balakot is hundreds of KM away. Balakot has never been a "defended" area by us (as acknowledged by your own iaf commander. That article was posted on PDF as well).

Arial 'violations' happen from PAF and Iaf pretty regularly. Remember post-Mumbai violations and interceptions? Pakistan wasn't in "war-alert" mode. Normal violation happened, PAF intercepted, but the cowardly iaf launched their stand-off weapons this time and ran back (which was unexpected). Hence, cowardly iaf used peace-time conditions to send a message to us.

However, we ANNOUNCED our strikes beforehand in war-time conditions (by war time, I mean everyone on other side was red-alert and ready to shoot down any of PAF intrusions right away---Unlike the conditions where IAF came to our side) We took away any surprise advantage from us, your side knew we were coming to stike (unlike our side did) and yet we were able to bomb indian targets, shot down your jets, and capture your wing-commander.

Now honestly tell me, do you have any excuse to hide your utter humiliation? The body language of indian media, indian political and military leadership, and tbh even indians online showed us Pakistanis that even YOU GUYS felt defeated/humiliated at what we did to you (some senior indian members here have accepted it too :) )

On the other hand IAF reaction time was much shorter that the PAF

Lol, no shit. I explained it above...
 

Ultima Thule

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Meteor has 3 times the range of AIM120C and it can engage targets 300 km away.
Can i provide the source/links that the meteor has the range excess of 100 Km and doesn't specify that Meteor have a range of 300 km, if they have 300 km range this doesn't means it able to intercept fighter jets at this range but AWACS/Air refueling tankers/ISR (INTELLIGENCE,SURVEILLANCE,SPY) aircraft at these ranges @Suresh Garapeddi
here from janes defense weekly
a range in excess of 100 km
https://www.janes.com/article/85102/raf-flies-meteor-bvraam-on-typhoon-for-first-time

https://aircraft.fandom.com/wiki/MBDA_Meteor

Operational range 100+ km
https://www.researchgate.net/figure...ir-to-air-missile-BVRAAM-being_fig3_281471424
range in excess of 100km
https://missilehome.com/meteor.html
excess of 62 mi (100 km)

this is enough for you or you want more @Suresh Garapeddi
 

My-Analogous

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NEW DELHI:

In two years from now, the Indian Air Force's frontline Sukhoi-30 fighters may be re-armed with Israeli Derby air-to-air missiles after the jet's Russian-made R-77 missiles were found wanting in air combat operations over the Line of Control on February 27 this year.

Sources in the Indian Air Force told NDTV, "We already have the missile as part of the SPYDER (Surface-to-Air Missile) system. Integration (with the IAF's Su-30s) is the next step.''

Retaliating to the IAF strike on the Jaish-e-Mohammed training facility in Balakot on February 26, the Pakistan Air Force aggressively positioned a large formation of 24 fighters near the Line of Control (LoC). A handful of these jets managed to cross the LoC to fire precision-guided glide bombs towards Indian military positions in the Rajouri sector.

Eight Indian Air Force fighters, including two Sukhoi-30 MKI jets, were vectored to intercept the Pakistani formation when they detected the launch of several US-made AIM-120 C5 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) in their direction.

''The PAF surprised the IAF by launching air-to-air missiles from inside Azad Kashmir," says Sameer Joshi, a Kargil veteran. ''The AMRAAM effectively outranged the IAF air-to-air missiles which did not get a command to launch," he said.

Among the Indian Air Force's fighters which were targeted were two Sukhoi-30s which managed to evade the AMRAAMs which were fired at close to their maximum range of 100 kilometres. Fully defensive and desperate to escape the incoming AMRAAMs, the IAF Sukhoi-30s escaped being shot down but were unable to retaliate the F-16s because they were out of position and their own missiles, the Russian R-77s, did not have the range to realistically engage the Pakistani fighters. IAF sources told NDTV that the Russian missiles do not match its advertised range and cannot engage targets which are more than 80 kilometres away.

To meet its requirements, the IAF is looking at the I-Derby variant of the Israeli missile which was unveiled at the Paris Air Show in 2015. Integrating the missile into the Russian fighter will be a challenge and, according to sources, will require Israeli expertise, particularly in developing a data-link between the Sukhoi-30 and the missile, once it is fired.A fighter jet communicates with the missile through the data link and passes on updated vectors (location) of the fighter which has been targeted.


The Indian Navy was the first to integrate an older variant of the Derby missile with its now-retired fleet of Sea Harrier fighters. The missile is also the primary air-to-air weapon of the indigenous Tejas fighter which has entered service with the Indian Air Force. The Derby is also a component of the IAF's SPYDER surface-to-air missile batteries, and are considered several generations ahead of the legacy Russian systems which it has replaced.

However, the I-Derby missile, now being looked at, is a considerably more advanced that the missiles presently in service. An article in Aviation Week says, ''The new (missile) seeker is lighter and more compact than its predecessor, thus clearing valuable space which has been used by the missile designers to increase the propulsion system. This new addition increases the range of the I-Derby ER beyond 100 km., significantly more than its current "short/medium" range capability.''

The I-Derby isn't the only missile the air force is looking at to modernise its Sukhoi-30 fleet. The European MBDA manufactured Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile (ASRAAM), the first of which were acquired for the air force's Jaguar fleet in 2014 as part of a 250 million pound deal, has been tested in wind tunnels on models of the Su-30 by the National Aerospace Laboratories in Bengaluru.

Once fully integrated, it will replace the R-73 short range air-to-air missile presently in use on the Sukhoi-30 fleet.

Simultaneously, the IAF is evaluating the indigenous Astra air-to-air missile for the Sukhoi-30. IAF sources told NDTV, ''The Astra is in development. We have ordered fifty (missiles) of the limited series production.'' Ultimately, though, the air force wants an extended-range variant of the missile. ''It will take ten years to get the Astra Mk2 in our inventory," say sources, a reason why integration of the I-Derby is being seen as a priority.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/out...s-sukhois-with-israeli-missiles-2044172?amp=1
Please send those R77 to us to show Indian how to use it effectively and stop this blame game because of your incompetence.
 

Falcon26

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Pre Feb-27th Indians were convinced that SU-30MKI could detect and take out anything in Pakistan before PAF even knew what happened

Post Feb-27th Indians are convinced that Rafale will tilt the balance in India’s favor.

No-one in India has the sanity to ask what happened to the Sukhois. The only thing we hear these days is that while the PAF was bombing Indian military installations and shooting down Indian planes, the SU-30s (till then the best in India and per some Indians the best in Asia) were busy running away from the PAF. They even awarded themselves a medal for “dodging AMRAAMs” it’s like the SU-30s entire purpose for induction was to be bullied by the PAF. I will say again: Pakistan is extremely lucky to have India as its main enemy.
 

AUz

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Pre Feb-27th Indians were convinced that SU-30MKI could detect and take out anything in Pakistan before PAF even knew what happened

Post Feb-27th Indians are convinced that Rafale will tilt the balance in India’s favor.

No-one in India has the sanity to ask what happened to the Sukhois. The only thing we hear these days is that while the PAF was bombing Indian military installations and shooting down Indian planes, the SU-30s (till then the best in India and per some Indians the best in Asia) were busy running away from the PAF. They even awarded themselves a medal for “dodging AMRAAMs” it’s like the SU-30s entire purpose for induction was to be bullied by the PAF. I will say again: Pakistan is extremely lucky to have India as its main enemy.

:lol:

So true!!

While PAF was bombing indians, shooting down their jets, capturing their wing commanders, and humiliating them worldwide......Su-30's were busy saving themselves from getting arse r@pped by PAF's F-16s and indian military was so panicked that it was busy shooting down its own helicopters and killing its own personnel.

Imagine the humiliating cowardice, incompetence, and weakness of hindu military (no wonder hindus were dominated and ruled over by superior Islamic forces for 1000+ years!)

Even indian scholar's have written books on the famous incompetence and cowardice of hindu military inferiority...

History of Hindus: Saga of Defeats
 

usman012

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Indians should also import Israeli American and french men and mate them with indian women so 25 year later they can have competent men for their military
American and French women do not give a **** about Indians .Mating is another thing .Due to cross breeding in India ,Aryans and Caucasian race in India is on the verge of extinction .
 

Osiris

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Pre Feb-27th Indians were convinced that SU-30MKI could detect and take out anything in Pakistan before PAF even knew what happened

Post Feb-27th Indians are convinced that Rafale will tilt the balance in India’s favor.

No-one in India has the sanity to ask what happened to the Sukhois. The only thing we hear these days is that while the PAF was bombing Indian military installations and shooting down Indian planes, the SU-30s (till then the best in India and per some Indians the best in Asia) were busy running away from the PAF. They even awarded themselves a medal for “dodging AMRAAMs” it’s like the SU-30s entire purpose for induction was to be bullied by the PAF. I will say again: Pakistan is extremely lucky to have India as its main enemy.

Here is a question for you, what was PAF doing, while IAF was bombing targets inside Pakistan proper(not Kashmir). They were not even in the picture, there were no missile launches or dog fights etc.

According to eye witness reports, PAF jets were only heard in Balakot area, a full 5 minutes, after Indian bombs had exploded. By that time, IAF jets were well inside India. All this story about Indian bombs missing because PAF made them miss is just a story. Smart munitions do not even release, unless targeted on pre fed co-ordinates.

Point being, since reaction time is so short, the attacking air force has the initiative and the surprise. Here IAF was outnumbered 3:1.
 

Army research

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Here is a question for you, what was PAF doing, while IAF was bombing targets inside Pakistan proper(not Kashmir). They were not even in the picture, there were no missile launches or dog fights etc.

According to eye witness reports, PAF jets were only heard in Balakot area, a full 5 minutes, after Indian bombs had exploded. By that time, IAF jets were well inside India. All this story about Indian bombs missing because PAF made them miss is just a story. Smart munitions do not even release, unless targeted on pre fed co-ordinates.

Point being, since reaction time is so short, the attacking air force has the initiative and the surprise. Here IAF was outnumbered 3:1.
dude your Sushma herself changed her stance to " we did not want to cause casualties " from the previous mythical 300 dead, and do you have any grasp of air warfare ? numerous times each years flankers enter Alaska and f22s enter kamchatkan area, both fly till they are escorted out, your force , of mach 1+ entered a mere few km, when your awacs saw caps being redirected towards you ( light bulb it takes time ) you jettisoned your load and flew back ( second light bulbs it takes seconds )
however for the 27th, the Pakistanis publicly said they will retaliate and did so in broad day light with the entirety of the IAF active just to avoid such a thing whereas on the 26th it was unsure if india will escalate
 

Osiris

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dude your Sushma herself changed her stance to " we did not want to cause casualties " from the previous mythical 300 dead, and do you have any grasp of air warfare ? numerous times each years flankers enter Alaska and f22s enter kamchatkan area, both fly till they are escorted out, your force , of mach 1+ entered a mere few km, when your awacs saw caps being redirected towards you ( light bulb it takes time ) you jettisoned your load and flew back ( second light bulbs it takes seconds )
however for the 27th, the Pakistanis publicly said they will retaliate and did so in broad day light with the entirety of the IAF active just to avoid such a thing whereas on the 26th it was unsure if india will escalate

So your story is, IAF intruded just a few km deep and then when they saw PAF approaching, they jettisoned their bombs to "bug out", but the bombs flew 60 Kms into Pakistan and just fell a few hundred meters(as per Pakistan) from their intended targets ?
 

Falcon26

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Here is a question for you, what was PAF doing, while IAF was bombing targets inside Pakistan proper(not Kashmir). They were not even in the picture, there were no missile launches or dog fights etc.

According to eye witness reports, PAF jets were only heard in Balakot area, a full 5 minutes, after Indian bombs had exploded. By that time, IAF jets were well inside India. All this story about Indian bombs missing because PAF made them miss is just a story. Smart munitions do not even release, unless targeted on pre fed co-ordinates.

Point being, since reaction time is so short, the attacking air force has the initiative and the surprise. Here IAF was outnumbered 3:1.

False claim.

PAF successfully intercepted and chased away the IAF jets. Hence why the IAF failed to hit its assigned targets. This is globally accepted fact.

Next day the PAF retaliated, struck multiple targets in India including the premises of Brigade HQ & shot down at least one IAF fighter jet and induced the Indians to shoot down another of their own helicopters leading to the death of 7 people.

Stop imagining things and stick to the facts!
 

Army research

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So your story is, IAF intruded just a few km deep and then when they saw PAF approaching, they jettisoned their bombs to "bug out", but the bombs flew 60 Kms into Pakistan and just fell a few hundred meters(as per Pakistan) from their intended targets ?
dude that's what you call SOW, its how they work
 

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