• Tuesday, October 22, 2019

Our F16s and the Indian Predicament Spanning Nearly Four Decades.

Discussion in 'Pakistan Air Force' started by FOOLS_NIGHTMARE, Oct 10, 2019.

  1. FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

    FOOLS_NIGHTMARE FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,518
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2018
    Ratings:
    +9 / 891 / -2
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    During the wars of 1965 and 1971 PAF though outnumbered gave a bloody nose to its numerically superior enemy. The feat bestowed by a handful of our professionals left a scar on the ego of our giant neighbour for many decades to come. In 1979 ACM Anwar Shamin initiated the Project Falcon to evaluate,negotiate and procure the F16s from the US. This news came as a BOMBSHELL for the Indians.Never in the history of mankind a neighbour manifolds bigger in size and strength Whined,moaned,cried and begged to stop these machines to be delivered to PAF from day one. The irony is that this saga still continues with full whimper as we speak.
    Guilty of her role in the East Pakistan fiasco,Indira Gandhi was the first Indian leader to start a never ending crusade against the F16s. She made countless pleas to the US,from that time the Indian caucus in the US Congress led by Stephen Solarz was fully active. The US initially refused to sell the F16s and offered us F5Es,F20s and even A7 Corsairs. Sighting our indispensability in the Afghan theater they offered PAF a scale down version of F16 with a J79 engine.
    [​IMG]

    PAF strongly opposed this offer and requested F16 block 15 with an F100-PW-200 engine.
    Finally US relented and a letter of agreement for up to 28 F-16A and 12 F-16B was signed December 1981,with delivery scheduled for January 1983.The first F-16 arriving at PAF Base Mushaff on 15 January 1983 was flown by Squadron Leader Shahid Javed.
    upload_2019-10-9_19-4-51.jpeg

    On the first delivery the paranoia and hysteria exhibited by India was unimaginable. Indira Gandhi was running around the globe like a headless chicken. In the end to counter our 40 F16s India ended up buying 400 aircrafts of numerous origins. From Mirage 2000s,jaguars,Mig 23/25/27s,Harriers and others.Below Indira Gandhi meeting with French President Francois Mitterrand for Mirage 2000s.
    [​IMG]

    In the late eighties PAF requested another 60 F16s under peace gate 3,eleven were built by 1990. This time India succeeded in lobbying,the Pressler amendment was passed the U.S. placed sanctions and an arms embargo on Pakistan on 6 October 1990 due to the country's continued nuclear weapons programme.All eleven Peace Gate III F-16s, along with 7 F-16A and 10 F-16B of the 60 Peace Gate IV F-16s, which had been built by the end of 1994 were embargoed and put into storage in the United States.
    [​IMG]

    The time between 1987 to 2005 PAF was deprived of the F16s, during this period IAF procured further high tech aircrafts including the Su30 MKIs and Mig 29s in big numbers to counter the PAFs dwindling F16s. In 2001 the war on terror came as a blessing in disguise from 2006 the US started supplying us 14 F16s under EDA with further 18 block 52s under peace drive 1 along with some Jordanian F16s.
    [​IMG]

    Naturally the Indians opposed the deal vehemently again,even with PAF operating only a handful of high tech aircrafts ,the Indian sense of inferiority complex was prevalent in every nook and corner of the capitol Hill. Nevertheless PAF also managed to upgrade its ageing fleet courtesy uncle Sam.
    Boisterous with its numerical and technical superiority the enemy tried to challenge our professionals again, but ended up being humiliated as usual.
    [​IMG]

    For just one aircraft (F16) the Indians tried every trick in their bag,from obstructing to purchasing every possible high tech aircraft available in the world. So far their Mirages,MIGs,Jaguars,Sukhois and others have all failed to subdue our KNIGHTS.Their last hope and prayers are resting on the RAFALEs.
    [​IMG]

    Judging by the history it is not difficult to conclude who will emerge VICTORIOUS again.:pakistan:
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 53
    • Positive Rating Positive Rating x 5
  2. Khafee

    Khafee PROFESSIONAL

    Messages:
    7,562
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2015
    Ratings:
    +86 / 26,652 / -0
    Country:
    United Arab Emirates
    Location:
    Saudi Arabia
    @WebMaster @Horus This right here, gentlemen is TT material!!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 11
  3. Gandhi G in da house

    Gandhi G in da house ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    8,797
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Ratings:
    +3 / 10,207 / -30
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    OP - I like the confidence. Especially with the way both of those previous wars ended for Pakistan, especially 1971. Quite commendable to be so confident even after all that.:yes4:
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  4. Areesh

    Areesh ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    33,616
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    Ratings:
    +32 / 60,199 / -32
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    To be honest the way IAF has performed in February this year, you have lost all bragging rights as far as airforce is concerned
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 21
  5. Gandhi G in da house

    Gandhi G in da house ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    8,797
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Ratings:
    +3 / 10,207 / -30
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    Yes, it was a poor performance but it was one day and it was a skirmish, not even a battle. And IAF was heavily outnumbered by PAF. You can read as much into it as you like but most international observers aren't. In fact, i believe that the IAF got a much needed wake up call at a very small price.

    I do believe that the air force is our weakest military arm and your air force is your strongest. To be fair, I have also read from most neutral sources that the PAF did give IAF a bloody nose in 1965 war... but 1971 really ? I am sure that even most Pakistani analysts would agree that 1971 was a complete defeat for Pakistan including the PAF.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  6. Areesh

    Areesh ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    33,616
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    Ratings:
    +32 / 60,199 / -32
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    PAF still managed to perform very well in 1971. You can go and read about it. I won;t say it was as good as 1965 but it was better in 3 services

    Overall it was a debacle. Yes

    PS: It sounds funny when you say you got outnumbered by PAF in February
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 7
  7. Gandhi G in da house

    Gandhi G in da house ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    8,797
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Ratings:
    +3 / 10,207 / -30
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    It's a fact.
     
  8. maverick1977

    maverick1977 FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,044
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1,109 / -0
    link please
     
  9. Longhorn

    Longhorn FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    845
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2019
    Ratings:
    +1 / 1,011 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    You had plenty of planes.
    You didn't have the balls to up the ante.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 10
  10. Gandhi G in da house

    Gandhi G in da house ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    8,797
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Ratings:
    +3 / 10,207 / -30
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    I am not here to trade insults like 14 year old kids in a backyard.

    It's already established by almost every neutral account of the skirmish that during the skirimish which lasted only a few minutes anyway, IAF was heavily outnumbered by PAF. Look, i am not trying to take anything away from the PAF's performance on that day, but facts are facts and have to be stated.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 6
  11. Longhorn

    Longhorn FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    845
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2019
    Ratings:
    +1 / 1,011 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I don't trade in insults.
    It's a fact.
    We put up as many planes as we deemed necessary to conduct our operation.
    You had plenty of planes on the ground.
    Why didn't you put them up in the air and teach us a lesson.
    They won't fly themselves, you know.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  12. loanranger

    loanranger FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    814
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2019
    Ratings:
    +2 / 836 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Please. You had sufficient asets available to send in the air. The problem was that we didnot come when you expected i.e night of 26. You were guarding your airspace like hell that night. When dawn approached you lowered your threat levels and were a bit exhausted aswell. Thats when PAF came.
    Never use lame excuses like we were outnumbered again because you had pilots and jets ready on ground to go. You just never scrambled them. PAF was not out for blood that day. Otherwise we had nine locks. Only two were granted.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 15
  13. Gandhi G in da house

    Gandhi G in da house ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    8,797
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Ratings:
    +3 / 10,207 / -30
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    Reinforcements had come in the form of 4 Migs out of which one was Abhinandan. IAF was still outnumbered at that time in that area.
     
  14. Hakikat ve Hikmet

    Hakikat ve Hikmet ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    8,191
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2015
    Ratings:
    +11 / 15,069 / -1
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    United States
    And, it's always one shot - be it a lone private, a single sub or a stray aircraft!!! You take it out, and the Hindutva balloon gets punctured.....
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 4
  15. aliyusuf

    aliyusuf FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    842
    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Ratings:
    +6 / 1,033 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Why are you here at all, where you have no business to be in the first place. Your leaders and media term us as your enemy. Then why do you visit our forums. You and your ilk who keep brazenly and shamelessly frequenting our forum, are like a chronic contagious disease which our forum just can't seem to get rid of. Kuch sharm hoti hai, kuch haya hoti hai. Be-sharmo ki tarah maan na maan mein mein tera mehman.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 6