• Monday, July 6, 2020

Osama's death: pre-planned by the CIA & the ISI?

Discussion in 'Strategic & Foreign Affairs' started by 53fd, May 4, 2011.

  1. 53fd

    53fd FULL MEMBER

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    Very interesting piece. It says this event was pre-planned by the ISI & the CIA, Pasha/Kiyani & Panetta/Mullen. Pakistan had to make the 'ultimate sacrifice', to become the scapegoat, to end the WOT, to give the US a graceful exit from Afghanistan. Very plausible.

    Behind Osama’s Death!!! « News From North and South

     
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  2. shadow-point

    shadow-point FULL MEMBER

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    if this darama was created by isi and cia then why didnt isi choose afghanistan as the venue rather they chose pakistan and right in front of pma so that whole world can blame pakistan and pakistani military as terrorist sheltering body??????????????? who the f u c k this bast ard isi working for pakistan or america??????????????
     
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  3. Bhairava

    Bhairava SENIOR MEMBER

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    No matter how the Pakistanis twist it through n number of conspiracy theories - the truth is Osama would not have been in Abbotabad and that too within a km of the PMA, Kakul without alerting the Intelligence agencies or the Army itself.
     
  4. 53fd

    53fd FULL MEMBER

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    People don't understand that it's not about how OBL died, but what his death represented: an exit strategy for the US from Afghanistan.
     
  5. AstanoshKhan

    AstanoshKhan <b>PTI: NAYA PAKISTANI</b>

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    Thousands of libya civilians have died! And the Osama news is covering up the story. This is a clever technique they used to attack the middle east ''Aik Teer say dho Shikaar''. Also, why Pakistan hosted the venue is due to the fact that Obama needs to win the upcoming elections, and they've been claiming Osama's presence in Pakistan for ages - ISI chief visits Washington and come up with this plan to help US exit afghanistan but to make them win more voters ISI took dollars to show Osama's presence in Pakistan.
     
  6. Ahmad Abdullah Ravian

    Ahmad Abdullah Ravian FULL MEMBER

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    Yes this a big point actually Pakistan political Government may have been working for USA
    and ordered both ISI and Army to keep Quite:argh::argh:
     
  7. Sonic_boom

    Sonic_boom FULL MEMBER

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    Pakistan has been busted in front of whole world :lol:
     
  8. krash

    krash MODERATOR

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    If only it was that simple ;)
     
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  9. Meengla

    Meengla SENIOR MEMBER

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    With bin Laden&rsquo;s death, U.S. sees a chance to hasten the end of the Afghan war - The Washington Post

    “Bin Laden’s death is the beginning of the endgame in Afghanistan,” said a senior administration official who, like others interviewed for this article, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal policy deliberations. “It changes everything.”

    Another senior official involved in Afghanistan policy said the killing “presents an opportunity for reconciliation that didn’t exist before.” Those officials and others have engaged in urgent discussions and strategy sessions over the past two days about how to leverage the death into a spark that ignites peace talks.








    [/QUOTE]
     
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  10. foxhound

    foxhound FULL MEMBER

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    ref:Osama bin Laden dead: Pakistan played 'pivotal role' in operation to kill al-Qaeda leader - Telegraph

    Osama bin Laden dead: Pakistan played 'pivotal role' in operation to kill al-Qaeda leader
    Pakistan played a 'pivotal role' in the death of Osama Bin Laden, the country's foreign secretary Salman Bashir has said.

    [​IMG]
    Pakistan Foreign Secretary, Salman Bashir (R), Afghan Deputy Foreign Minister, Jaweed Ludin (C) and US Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, Marc Grossman join hands during a press conference in Islamabad Photo: AFP7:29AM BST 04 May 2011

    Salman Bashir told the BBC that US statements suggesting they were not trusted with details of raid was 'disquietening.'

    CIA chief Leon Panetta has said no intelligence was shared with Pakistan for fear the raid would be jeopardised.

    "He is entitled to his views but I know for sure that we have extended every cooperation to the US including the CIA, and to other countries as far as the campaign against terror is concerned, said Mr Bashir.

    "All the significant al-Qaeda people who have been picked up, it was done by the ISI (Pakistan's Intelligence Service), from Pakistan towns and cities.

    "Therefore this whole context that seems to have surfaced about the lack of trust is, in my view, sort of misplaced."

    Mr Bashir said Pakistan had indicated as far back as 2009 that the compound was a place that Osama bin Laden may have been hiding.

    "The fact is on this particular occasion it was pointed out by our intelligence quite some time ago to the US intelligence.

    "Of course they have a much more sophisticated viewpoint to evaluate and assess but it's a fact that most of these things that have happened in terms of success against the global anti terror, Pakistan has a pivitol role.

    "We had indicated as far back as 2009 (it was) a possible place. This whole issue of locating Osama bin Laden had been a priority for everyone in the world.

    "Pakistan does not have to go over and over again its credentials in these matters."

    But Mr Bashir admitted there were 'millions' of other places that Osama bin Laden might have been and said they had been primarily concentrating on the 'caves and hideouts.'

    Lieutenant General Asad Durrani, former head of Pakistan's Intelligence Service also told the BBC it was "more likely" the Pakistani government did know about the raid.

    "It is more likely that they did know as far as ISI concerned they had some idea about the presence and of course as far as the operation itself is concerned it is not conceivable that it was done without the involvement of Pakistani security forces at some stage maybe late enough but the indications are that they were involved and they were told they were in position," said Lieutenant General Durrani who was director general of the ISI in the 90s.

    "The army chief was in his office, the cordons were turned around that particular place police as well as the military.

    "The pakistani helicopters were also in the air so that indicates that they were involved but as far as the knowledge is concerned it is possible that the one would not know about him all the time, but small part of it did know the idea was that."

    Bin Laden was shot dead by US special forces in Abbottabad on Sunday.

    On Tuesday the White House clarified the details of how the raid took place, saying bin Laden was unarmed when he was killed after resisting capture.

    Dramatic description of bin Laden using his wife as a &#8220;human shield&#8221; and forcing her to sacrifice her life also proved to be false. The woman was still alive and was taken into custody with several of the terrorist&#8217;s children.

    In an embarrassing climb-down, Barack Obama&#8217;s press secretary, Jay Carney, admitted that the previous version of events &#8212; which came mostly from the chief US counter-terrorism adviser, John Brennan &#8212; had been put out &#8220;with great haste&#8221;.

    US officials have said they are considering when to make public their photographs of his corpse.

    Mr Carney said the "gruesome" image could inflame sensitivities, but Mr Panetta said there was no question it would at some point be shown to the public.

    He also appeared to cast doubt on suggestions that the US filmed bin Laden&#8217;s burial at sea by refusing to confirm that the video existed.

    ---------- Post added at 09:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 PM ----------

    ref:Osama bin Laden dead: Pakistan played 'pivotal role' in operation to kill al-Qaeda leader - Telegraph
     
  11. foxhound

    foxhound FULL MEMBER

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    ref:Osama bin Laden dead: Pakistan played 'pivotal role' in operation to kill al-Qaeda leader - Telegraph

    Osama bin Laden dead: Pakistan played 'pivotal role' in operation to kill al-Qaeda leader
    Pakistan played a 'pivotal role' in the death of Osama Bin Laden, the country's foreign secretary Salman Bashir has said.

    [​IMG]
    Pakistan Foreign Secretary, Salman Bashir (R), Afghan Deputy Foreign Minister, Jaweed Ludin (C) and US Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, Marc Grossman join hands during a press conference in Islamabad Photo: AFP7:29AM BST 04 May 2011

    Salman Bashir told the BBC that US statements suggesting they were not trusted with details of raid was 'disquietening.'

    CIA chief Leon Panetta has said no intelligence was shared with Pakistan for fear the raid would be jeopardised.

    "He is entitled to his views but I know for sure that we have extended every cooperation to the US including the CIA, and to other countries as far as the campaign against terror is concerned, said Mr Bashir.

    "All the significant al-Qaeda people who have been picked up, it was done by the ISI (Pakistan's Intelligence Service), from Pakistan towns and cities.

    "Therefore this whole context that seems to have surfaced about the lack of trust is, in my view, sort of misplaced."

    Mr Bashir said Pakistan had indicated as far back as 2009 that the compound was a place that Osama bin Laden may have been hiding.

    "The fact is on this particular occasion it was pointed out by our intelligence quite some time ago to the US intelligence.

    "Of course they have a much more sophisticated viewpoint to evaluate and assess but it's a fact that most of these things that have happened in terms of success against the global anti terror, Pakistan has a pivitol role.

    "We had indicated as far back as 2009 (it was) a possible place. This whole issue of locating Osama bin Laden had been a priority for everyone in the world.

    "Pakistan does not have to go over and over again its credentials in these matters."

    But Mr Bashir admitted there were 'millions' of other places that Osama bin Laden might have been and said they had been primarily concentrating on the 'caves and hideouts.'

    Lieutenant General Asad Durrani, former head of Pakistan's Intelligence Service also told the BBC it was "more likely" the Pakistani government did know about the raid.

    "It is more likely that they did know as far as ISI concerned they had some idea about the presence and of course as far as the operation itself is concerned it is not conceivable that it was done without the involvement of Pakistani security forces at some stage maybe late enough but the indications are that they were involved and they were told they were in position," said Lieutenant General Durrani who was director general of the ISI in the 90s.

    "The army chief was in his office, the cordons were turned around that particular place police as well as the military.

    "The pakistani helicopters were also in the air so that indicates that they were involved but as far as the knowledge is concerned it is possible that the one would not know about him all the time, but small part of it did know the idea was that."

    Bin Laden was shot dead by US special forces in Abbottabad on Sunday.

    On Tuesday the White House clarified the details of how the raid took place, saying bin Laden was unarmed when he was killed after resisting capture.

    Dramatic description of bin Laden using his wife as a “human shield” and forcing her to sacrifice her life also proved to be false. The woman was still alive and was taken into custody with several of the terrorist’s children.

    In an embarrassing climb-down, Barack Obama’s press secretary, Jay Carney, admitted that the previous version of events — which came mostly from the chief US counter-terrorism adviser, John Brennan — had been put out “with great haste”.

    US officials have said they are considering when to make public their photographs of his corpse.

    Mr Carney said the "gruesome" image could inflame sensitivities, but Mr Panetta said there was no question it would at some point be shown to the public.

    He also appeared to cast doubt on suggestions that the US filmed bin Laden’s burial at sea by refusing to confirm that the video existed.
     
  12. foxhound

    foxhound FULL MEMBER

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    apologies for the above....repeat posts....system error?
     
  13. foxhound

    foxhound FULL MEMBER

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    ref:Osama bin Laden killing prompts US-Pakistan war of words | World news | guardian.co.uk

    Osama bin Laden killing prompts US-Pakistan war of words
    Pakistan says raid on Bin Laden's house was 'unauthorised' while CIA director defends decision not to inform Islamabad

    [​IMG]
    Share Declan Walsh in Abbottabad guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 4 May 2011 09.17 BST Article history
    Osama bin Laden's house in Abbottabad, which Pakistan's ISI agency says it raided in 2003, although satellite imagery from 2004 shows an empty field on the site. Photograph: Aamir Qureshi/AFP/Getty Images

    The war of words between Pakistan and the US in the wake of Osama bin Laden's killing has intensified, with senior officials on both sides trading barbs that underline their mutual mistrust, and the White House reversing its position on key details of the raid.

    In Islamabad the Pakistani foreign ministry issued a hard-worded statement condemning the raid on Bin Laden's house as an "unauthorised unilateral action", and warned that this would not be tolerated in future.

    In Washington, the CIA chief, Leon Panetta, said Pakistan was not informed of the assault on Abbottabad, a military garrison town, because US officials feared the al-Qaida leader could have been warned.

    "It was decided that any effort to work with the Pakistanis could jeopardise the mission. They might alert the targets," he told Time.

    Pakistan's foreign secretary, Salman Bashir, described the American attitude as "disquieting", asserting that Pakistan had played a key role in the fight against Islamist militancy.

    "Most of these things that have happened in terms of global anti-terror, Pakistan has played a pivotal role," he said. "So it's a little disquieting when we have comments like this."

    Earlier, President Asif Ali Zardari said American claims were "baseless speculation &#8230; that doesn't reflect fact".

    Meanwhile, American accounts of Bin Laden's death have come under intense scrutiny following White House admissions that early official reports claiming Bin Laden had been armed and cowered behind his wife during the assault were false.
    Bin Laden's wife, earlier said to have been killed, survived and is in Pakistani custody. A Pakistani television station, Geo, published a copy of her passport, naming her as Amal Ahmed Abdel Fatteh, a Yemeni citizen.

    The Obama administration is still mulling over how to release gory photos of Bin Laden's body to counter claims in the region that he has not been killed. "There are sensitivities about the appropriateness," said a spokesman, Jay Carney. "It is fair to say it is a gruesome photograph."

    Panetta told NBC news: "I don't think there was any question that ultimately a photograph would be presented to the public."

    Pakistan's military, the brunt of much of the speculation, has been largely quiet, although officials from the Inter-Services Intelligence have released some details about the raid based on interviews with Bin Laden relatives left behind by the US Navy Seal team.
    A senior ISI official said that Bin Laden's 12-year-old daughter had witnessed her father being killed and confirmed his death. "She said she saw him being shot," said the official.

    The official did not know the name of the girl, adding that between 18 and 19 people were in the compound at the time of the attack.

    He said the ISI had raided the Abbottabad house as it was under construction in 2003 in search of Abu Faraj al-Libbi, an al-Qaida lieutenant who was eventually captured two years later.

    But satellite imagery from 2004 shows an empty field on the site, and later images suggest that construction started a year later, shortly before US officials say Bin Laden and his family moved in.

    Pakistan's role is coming under intense fire in the US Congress. Patrick Meehan, chair of a House subcommittee on counterterrorism and intelligence, expressed frustration, wondering aloud if the country was driven by "divided loyalty, complicity [or] incompetence". Democrat Jackie Speier called it "the elephant in the room".

    Inside Pakistan, media coverage has focused on whether the government or military had advance knowledge of the raid &#8211; a sensitive issue given widespread anti-American sentiment and worries about breaches of sovereignty.

    The foreign ministry statement said reports that US helicopters had taken off from Ghazi airbase inside Pakistan were "absolutely false and incorrect". It continued: "Neither any base or facility inside Pakistan was used by the US forces."

    Questions have been raised about how US helicopters managed to enter Pakistani airspace, conduct a violent raid lasting 40 minutes, then return unhindered to Afghanistan.

    The foreign ministry said the US choppers "made use of blind spots in the radar coverage due to hilly terrain", facilitated by "mountainous terrain, efficacious use of latest technology and 'nap of the earth' flying techniques".


    ---------- Post added at 09:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 PM ----------

    ref:Osama bin Laden killing prompts US-Pakistan war of words | World news | guardian.co.uk

    Osama bin Laden killing prompts US-Pakistan war of words
    Pakistan says raid on Bin Laden's house was 'unauthorised' while CIA director defends decision not to inform Islamabad

    [​IMG]
    Share Declan Walsh in Abbottabad guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 4 May 2011 09.17 BST Article history
    Osama bin Laden's house in Abbottabad, which Pakistan's ISI agency says it raided in 2003, although satellite imagery from 2004 shows an empty field on the site. Photograph: Aamir Qureshi/AFP/Getty Images

    The war of words between Pakistan and the US in the wake of Osama bin Laden's killing has intensified, with senior officials on both sides trading barbs that underline their mutual mistrust, and the White House reversing its position on key details of the raid.

    In Islamabad the Pakistani foreign ministry issued a hard-worded statement condemning the raid on Bin Laden's house as an "unauthorised unilateral action", and warned that this would not be tolerated in future.

    In Washington, the CIA chief, Leon Panetta, said Pakistan was not informed of the assault on Abbottabad, a military garrison town, because US officials feared the al-Qaida leader could have been warned.

    "It was decided that any effort to work with the Pakistanis could jeopardise the mission. They might alert the targets," he told Time.

    Pakistan's foreign secretary, Salman Bashir, described the American attitude as "disquieting", asserting that Pakistan had played a key role in the fight against Islamist militancy.

    "Most of these things that have happened in terms of global anti-terror, Pakistan has played a pivotal role," he said. "So it's a little disquieting when we have comments like this."

    Earlier, President Asif Ali Zardari said American claims were "baseless speculation … that doesn't reflect fact".

    Meanwhile, American accounts of Bin Laden's death have come under intense scrutiny following White House admissions that early official reports claiming Bin Laden had been armed and cowered behind his wife during the assault were false.
    Bin Laden's wife, earlier said to have been killed, survived and is in Pakistani custody. A Pakistani television station, Geo, published a copy of her passport, naming her as Amal Ahmed Abdel Fatteh, a Yemeni citizen.

    The Obama administration is still mulling over how to release gory photos of Bin Laden's body to counter claims in the region that he has not been killed. "There are sensitivities about the appropriateness," said a spokesman, Jay Carney. "It is fair to say it is a gruesome photograph."

    Panetta told NBC news: "I don't think there was any question that ultimately a photograph would be presented to the public."

    Pakistan's military, the brunt of much of the speculation, has been largely quiet, although officials from the Inter-Services Intelligence have released some details about the raid based on interviews with Bin Laden relatives left behind by the US Navy Seal team.
    A senior ISI official said that Bin Laden's 12-year-old daughter had witnessed her father being killed and confirmed his death. "She said she saw him being shot," said the official.

    The official did not know the name of the girl, adding that between 18 and 19 people were in the compound at the time of the attack.

    He said the ISI had raided the Abbottabad house as it was under construction in 2003 in search of Abu Faraj al-Libbi, an al-Qaida lieutenant who was eventually captured two years later.

    But satellite imagery from 2004 shows an empty field on the site, and later images suggest that construction started a year later, shortly before US officials say Bin Laden and his family moved in.

    Pakistan's role is coming under intense fire in the US Congress. Patrick Meehan, chair of a House subcommittee on counterterrorism and intelligence, expressed frustration, wondering aloud if the country was driven by "divided loyalty, complicity [or] incompetence". Democrat Jackie Speier called it "the elephant in the room".

    Inside Pakistan, media coverage has focused on whether the government or military had advance knowledge of the raid – a sensitive issue given widespread anti-American sentiment and worries about breaches of sovereignty.

    The foreign ministry statement said reports that US helicopters had taken off from Ghazi airbase inside Pakistan were "absolutely false and incorrect". It continued: "Neither any base or facility inside Pakistan was used by the US forces."

    Questions have been raised about how US helicopters managed to enter Pakistani airspace, conduct a violent raid lasting 40 minutes, then return unhindered to Afghanistan.

    The foreign ministry said the US choppers "made use of blind spots in the radar coverage due to hilly terrain", facilitated by "mountainous terrain, efficacious use of latest technology and 'nap of the earth' flying techniques".
     
  14. foxhound

    foxhound FULL MEMBER

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    There are numerous conflicting reports...stories are being changed by the US administration and Pakistan......its possibly a 'DRAMA' staged.....could be a number of reasons:

    It gives the US to declare victory and then start bringing its forces home (note the US is spending over $100 billion in Afghanistan alone to maintain its troops - its funding is difficult to sustain due to the bad US economic situation)

    US/NATO forces have not achieved any significant impact of its 'invasion' of Afghanistan.....10 years of a war...that is currently seen as another 'vietnam' type humiliation....Afghanistan is nicknamed the GRAVEYARD OF EMPIRES...previous Soviet empire faced humiliation and NATO/US are or were heading in the same direction.

    US pakistan relations and strategic interests had reached its peak.....none were to compromise on what each viewed their strategic interests...

    US/NATO will start negotiating with the Taliban/Karzai for ending the conflict.....this will probably begin to happen after this 'DRAMA' subsides from the world media.....
     
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  15. foxhound

    foxhound FULL MEMBER

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    ref:Osama Bin Laden dead: White House backtracks on how bin Laden died - Telegraph

    Osama Bin Laden dead: White House backtracks on how bin Laden died
    The White House admitted last night that its initial account of the way Osama bin Laden died at the hands of US forces had been riddled with errors.

    Claims that the al-Qaeda leader had died while firing an automatic weapon at commandos were withdrawn, with President Barack Obama&#8217;s spokesman admitting &#8220;he was unarmed&#8221;. A dramatic description of bin Laden using his wife as a &#8220;human shield&#8221; and forcing her to sacrifice her life also proved to be false. The woman was still alive and was taken into custody with several of the terrorist&#8217;s children.

    In an embarrassing climb-down, Barack Obama&#8217;s press secretary, Jay Carney, admitted that the previous version of events &#8212; which came mostly from the chief US counter-terrorism adviser, John Brennan &#8212; had been put out &#8220;with great haste&#8221;.

    The about-turn left the US open to accusations of a cover-up and led to calls for video footage of the raid in Abbottabad, Pakistan, and images of bin Laden&#8217;s body to be released to end conspiracy theories.

    However, the White House suggested that pictures of bin Laden&#8217;s body were too &#8220;gruesome&#8221; to be made public because they could prove &#8220;inflammatory&#8221;.

    Relations between the US and Pakistan, already strained by the fact that Pakistan was not told in advance about the raid, were put under renewed pressure by contradictory statements from Islamabad. It came as:

    * David Cameron said bin Laden &#8220;must have had an extensive support network in Pakistan&#8221;, leaving the country with &#8220;searching questions&#8221; to answer.

    * Five men of Asian origin were arrested after being seen filming at the Sellafield nuclear site in Cumbria.

    * The CIA director, Leon Panetta, said they had been only &#8220;60 to 80 per cent sure&#8221; that bin Laden was living at the compound.

    * Mr Panetta also disclosed that the US was concerned that the Pakistani authorities would alert bin Laden if they told them about the operation.

    * Material from the hard drive of bin Laden&#8217;s computer, described as &#8220;the mother lode of intelligence&#8221;, was being analysed.

    On a day of claim and counter-claim, Mr Carney gave a briefing in which he knocked down a series of statements made on Monday by Mr Brennan and other government sources. Asked whether officials had been caught in a &#8220;fog of war&#8221;, he said: &#8220;We provided a great deal of information with great haste in order to inform you about the operation. Some of the information is being reviewed and updated.&#8221;

    He then read out a new account of the assault, in which he said bin Laden was found on the top floor of a three-storey building, and as a US Navy Seal team entered: &#8220;His wife rushed the US assaulter and was shot in the leg but not killed. Bin Laden was then shot and killed. He was not armed.&#8221;

    Navi Pillay, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, called on the White House to make public the &#8220;precise facts surrounding his killing&#8221; to ensure it adhered to international law.

    The Taliban issued a statement in which it said the US &#8220;lacks strong evidence to prove its claim&#8221; that bin Laden was dead.

    Ron Paul, a congressman and Republican presidential candidate, said &#8220;confusion&#8221; in the White House accounts of events in Abbottabad was fuelling doubts. &#8220;The question I have is why does our government invite conspiracy theories all the time? Why don&#8217;t they show a picture?&#8221; he said.

    Mr Carney said the White House was still &#8220;reviewing&#8221; whether it was &#8220;appropriate&#8221; to release any of the images. He also appeared to cast doubt on suggestions that the US filmed bin Laden&#8217;s burial at sea by refusing to confirm that the video existed.

    Mr Cameron said the Americans had already done enough to show &#8220;reasonable people that bin Laden was dead&#8221; before saying that the Pakistani authorities had serious questions to answer over whether bin Laden was being protected while living at his compound within walking distance of Pakistan&#8217;s main military academy.

    &#8220;The fact that bin Laden was living in a large house in a populated area suggests that he must have had an extensive support network in Pakistan,&#8221; he said. &#8220;We don&#8217;t currently know the extent of that network, so it is right that we ask searching questions about it. And we will.&#8221;

    Mr Panetta confirmed that the Pakistani authorities were not told in advance of the audacious helicopter assault because of fears that the information would be leaked.

    He also said the US had been unable to spot bin Laden in his compound from satellite images, meaning the CIA was only &#8220;60 to 80 per cent sure&#8221; they would find him there.

    In Islamabad, the authorities said they had co-operated with the US and had kept the building under surveillance since 2009, contradicting Mr Obama&#8217;s account of a four-year CIA operation to identify bin Laden&#8217;s hiding place. They also suggested that their soldiers had raided the building in 2003 &#8212; two years before the building was even built, according to the US &#8212; looking for another senior al-Qaeda operative.

    As the men arrested outside the Sellafield plant were being questioned, Mr Cameron said Britain must be &#8220;more vigilant than ever&#8221; against the threat of terrorism.