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Op Sec concerns for active and retired Pak military personnel on defence.pk

CriticalThought

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Oct 10, 2016
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We are extremely fortunate on this forum to have very high level representation from the Pakistan Armed Forces. This increases the prestige of the forum, as well as giving it an authenticity that is lacking on other forums. While this presence is a boon for aficionados, it is also a potential exploit for the enemy looking to glean more information than they are allowed to access. Thus, maters of security must remain at the forefront. Here, I will try to present some basic rules that can help against inadvertent information leaks.

The first line of defence against inadvertent leaks is vetting by a second pair of eyes that are trained for the specific purpose. This means, posts are first reviewed by an analyst who remain completely anonymous and is not an active participant on the forum. It also means there will be lag time between the professional sending the post and the post becoming visible on the forum. This simple measure would go a long way in ensuring information security and preventing inadvertent leaks.

We also need an understanding of what constitutes 'sensitive information'. Let us review the posting characteristics of the user @gambit who is an ex-USAF F-16 and F117 Nighthawk pilot. This user regularly posts highly technical and in-depth articles, but at the same time, he is supremely aware of his limits. From reviewing his posts, I have reached the understanding that knowledge that is taught in regular academic institutions such as universities, when presented and discussed in a personal capacity, does not constitute information breach in general. There is only one way in which this can be considered a breach: if professionals from Pakistan Armed Forces are only ever exposed to institutional learning opportunities where proprietary/sensitive information is taught. If the enemy understands the teaching methods and curriculum of our Armed Forces, he will be in a position to gauge whether a professional is discussing a topic in a personal capacity based on publicly available knowledge, or he is leaking sensitive information taught exclusively within the armed forces.

I believe that a lack of general academic exposure increases the possibility of information leak in our armed forces, which in turn affects the quality of discussions that we can have online. I would like to convey these thoughts to our leadership so they may consider broadening the base of education imparted to armed services personnel.

@PanzerKiel
 

F86 Saber

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While i believe it varies from person to person, my experience is that our armed forces personnel know what they are not supposed to discuss with civilians.

2ndly, information flow in the military is highly compartmentalized, even the flagged officers only have information about their specific posts, this goes double for personnel handling sensitive information. When someone from a sensitive post retires, he is kept under surveillance until all systems he was handling are changed.
There are also internal monitoring systems in place which make sure there are no leakages.
 

PanzerKiel

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Dec 5, 2006
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While i believe it varies from person to person, my experience is that our armed forces personnel know what they are not supposed to discuss with civilians.

2ndly, information flow in the military is highly compartmentalized, even the flagged officers only have information about their specific posts, this goes double for personnel handling sensitive information. When someone from a sensitive post retires, he is kept under surveillance until all systems he was handling are changed.
There are also internal monitoring systems in place which make sure there are no leakages.
Dear

Maturity comes with more service and experience. It can always happen that a very junior individual, may be a simple soldier, might be having access to highly sensitive information.

Then, it can also happen that a person less mature, having less service, but otherwise having deep access, can divulge sensitive info... May it be wittingly or unwittingly. He can be provoked into doing this by multiple reasons, techniques etc...

I personally think that your point regarding information being compartmentalised, with officers having limited access, isn't true universally. There are organisations where this thing is practiced strictly, and then there are those where it isn't... Not due to laxity, but due to nature of the job itself.

Internal monitoring systems have limitations of their own, that's why we regularly hear news regarding information leakage and people being punished.
 

F86 Saber

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Dear

Maturity comes with more service and experience. It can always happen that a very junior individual, may be a simple soldier, might be having access to highly sensitive information.

Then, it can also happen that a person less mature, having less service, but otherwise having deep access, can divulge sensitive info... May it be wittingly or unwittingly. He can be provoked into doing this by multiple reasons, techniques etc...

I personally think that your point regarding information being compartmentalised, with officers having limited access, isn't true universally. There are organisations where this thing is practiced strictly, and then there are those where it isn't... Not due to laxity, but due to nature of the job itself.

Internal monitoring systems have limitations of their own, that's why we regularly hear news regarding information leakage and people being punished.
There is another thing which i have been thinking, while it is normal that people who do not get promoted beyond a certain level, or are punished for certain wrong doings hold grudge against their institution, i feel disgruntled employees can prove to be quite dangerous for armed forces.
 

R Wing

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May 23, 2016
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While i believe it varies from person to person, my experience is that our armed forces personnel know what they are not supposed to discuss with civilians.

2ndly, information flow in the military is highly compartmentalized, even the flagged officers only have information about their specific posts, this goes double for personnel handling sensitive information. When someone from a sensitive post retires, he is kept under surveillance until all systems he was handling are changed.
There are also internal monitoring systems in place which make sure there are no leakages.
Then how did the 3-star, 1-star and civ contractor trio easily sell classified information?

They were caught only because certain suspicions arose when the contractor bought a new house (what an idiot) that seemed out of reach given his government salary. Had he even been a little smarter and had invested in some other country or through a frontman, what then?
 

R Wing

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May 23, 2016
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Dear

Maturity comes with more service and experience. It can always happen that a very junior individual, may be a simple soldier, might be having access to highly sensitive information.

Then, it can also happen that a person less mature, having less service, but otherwise having deep access, can divulge sensitive info... May it be wittingly or unwittingly. He can be provoked into doing this by multiple reasons, techniques etc...

I personally think that your point regarding information being compartmentalised, with officers having limited access, isn't true universally. There are organisations where this thing is practiced strictly, and then there are those where it isn't... Not due to laxity, but due to nature of the job itself.

Internal monitoring systems have limitations of their own, that's why we regularly hear news regarding information leakage and people being punished.
The punishments for corruption and treason, regardless of scale, should be exemplary and ruthless.

It pains me to hear when two of my friends (one providing medical equipment and another providing HVAC services) say that they regularly have to pay acquisition-related General Officers commissions/kickbacks (or, to be more blunt, bribes) to get contracts. The saving grace is that these corrupt men still do ensure that at least the equipment procured is up to the mark --- something which the civil side often doesn't care about. These friends have provided their services to CMHs and the SPD.

How can the MI not know about this? Why is there tolerance? The corrupt IG FC (Balochistan/South) from a few years ago was apparently asked to deposit a few crores with GHQ and was removed from his post. Did he even serve any jail time?! His kids were zooming around Baloch roads in Ferraris!

Is there even a proper threadbare investigation against Asim Bajwa?

Only a zero-tolerance policy can send the right msg of deterrence. Israel asked its intel orgs to get their nuclear program whistleblower back in-country after he had leaked details to the press, exposing the program to the world, and fled to Europe. They managed to do it (patient honeytrap, but way more sophisticated than simple sexual promises over Fb chat!) --- and the guy served a very, very grueling prison sentence. We have so many traitors, many having divulged or sabotaged critical projects, who are enjoying life in the West with hardly a care in the world. This must not stand!
 

Pakistan Space Agency

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We have two Pakistan Army Chiefs with knowledge of the most sensitive Pakistani information, one is hiding in the United Arab Emirates and the other is serving in Saudi Arabia.

Where is the concern for leakage of sensitive information by these two individuals?
 

PDF

STAFF
May 1, 2015
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We have two Pakistan Army Chiefs with knowledge of the most sensitive Pakistani information, one is hiding in the United Arab Emirates and the other is serving in Saudi Arabia.

Where is the concern for leakage of sensitive information by these two individuals?
How many former Army Chiefs stay in Pakistan after retirement? In this decade or two, onely a couple of them I think stayed here.
 

PDF

STAFF
May 1, 2015
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How many former Army Chiefs stay in Pakistan after retirement? In this decade or two, onely a couple of them I think stayed here. While, there Indian counterparts mostly live inside India and perhaps go back to their villages too.
 

Vapour

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What about Khalid Kidwai? He was head of SPD for like 15-20 years and would've been privy to an unprecedented amount of critical info about the nuclear programme. How long did he stay in Pakistan after retirement? Why isn't there any limitations posed on such high ranking generals and organisation heads to not go abroad after retirement?
 

F86 Saber

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We have two Pakistan Army Chiefs with knowledge of the most sensitive Pakistani information, one is hiding in the United Arab Emirates and the other is serving in Saudi Arabia.

Where is the concern for leakage of sensitive information by these two individuals?
There are literally hundreds of officers in foreign countries on different assignments at any given time, if it was so easy, Pakistan would have ceased to exist long ago.
 

Fawadqasim1

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Jan 24, 2017
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We are extremely fortunate on this forum to have very high level representation from the Pakistan Armed Forces. This increases the prestige of the forum, as well as giving it an authenticity that is lacking on other forums. While this presence is a boon for aficionados, it is also a potential exploit for the enemy looking to glean more information than they are allowed to access. Thus, maters of security must remain at the forefront. Here, I will try to present some basic rules that can help against inadvertent information leaks.

The first line of defence against inadvertent leaks is vetting by a second pair of eyes that are trained for the specific purpose. This means, posts are first reviewed by an analyst who remain completely anonymous and is not an active participant on the forum. It also means there will be lag time between the professional sending the post and the post becoming visible on the forum. This simple measure would go a long way in ensuring information security and preventing inadvertent leaks.

We also need an understanding of what constitutes 'sensitive information'. Let us review the posting characteristics of the user @gambit who is an ex-USAF F-16 and F117 Nighthawk pilot. This user regularly posts highly technical and in-depth articles, but at the same time, he is supremely aware of his limits. From reviewing his posts, I have reached the understanding that knowledge that is taught in regular academic institutions such as universities, when presented and discussed in a personal capacity, does not constitute information breach in general. There is only one way in which this can be considered a breach: if professionals from Pakistan Armed Forces are only ever exposed to institutional learning opportunities where proprietary/sensitive information is taught. If the enemy understands the teaching methods and curriculum of our Armed Forces, he will be in a position to gauge whether a professional is discussing a topic in a personal capacity based on publicly available knowledge, or he is leaking sensitive information taught exclusively within the armed forces.

I believe that a lack of general academic exposure increases the possibility of information leak in our armed forces, which in turn affects the quality of discussions that we can have online. I would like to convey these thoughts to our leadership so they may consider broadening the base of education imparted to armed services personnel.

@PanzerKiel
How are you sir you just disappeared for a long time what happened.
 

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