• Saturday, December 14, 2019

Nuclear Pakistan - credit where it is due

Discussion in 'Pakistan Strategic Forces' started by ghazi52, May 28, 2019.

  1. ProudPak

    ProudPak FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    296
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2019
    Ratings:
    +0 / 339 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Didnt ZAB lose east Pakistan.
    Yet here we are praising a man that for personal gain destroyed a country.
    Good riddance to bad rubbish.
    Pakistan would have achieved nukes with or without ZAB.. nukes are in our destiny
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  2. Fawadqasim1

    Fawadqasim1 SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,528
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2017
    Ratings:
    +0 / 2,602 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    He was not the only one responsible for the loss of east Pakistan. And yes without him
    We would not be a nuclear power for various reasons political economic and required spine if you want I will elaborate
    I am not a ppp fan I know he was a womanizer and a heavy drinker but...

    if anyone wants to know truer history/story of Pakistans nuclear program and has no time to espy volumes he/she should read
    Shahid Ur Rehman's long road to chagai
    its a page turner, a thriller and historically/factually accurate.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  3. Baghial

    Baghial BANNED

    Messages:
    3,455
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1,830 / -11
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Actually it was 2 . Nuclear tests..
    First 8/10 ktons
    Second 4/5 ktons.
    There other were not nuclear..
    Cant do ..5 test in 1 tunnel....
    To lenthy to explain 2u..
    I know u will ask..

    ..KRL..AND PAEC... BOTH HAD CAPABILITIES TO DO TESTS...
    2 TESTS WERE OF PAEC..AND THE REST TESTS FOR MISSLES.. KRL......
    ONLY 2 WERE NUCLEAR TESTS....
     
  4. Manidabest

    Manidabest SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    2,099
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1 / 1,549 / -1
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United Arab Emirates
    credit goes to many people for it but Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto with his vision is the pioneer along with those scientist like Dr. Muneer who convinced to go down this path ...Great People of a Great Nation..
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  5. SABRE

    SABRE FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    531
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Ratings:
    +5 / 635 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    How exactly did he lose East Pakistan?
     
  6. ProudPak

    ProudPak FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    296
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2019
    Ratings:
    +0 / 339 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Hum yhan tum wahan. You dont know this infamous speech and it's common knowledge who won the elections.
     
  7. SABRE

    SABRE FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    531
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Ratings:
    +5 / 635 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    So he made a speech and East Pakistan broke away?
     
  8. ProudPak

    ProudPak FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    296
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2019
    Ratings:
    +0 / 339 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    I think you need to read what this man has done
     
  9. SABRE

    SABRE FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    531
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Ratings:
    +5 / 635 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    That's not the answer to my question. I don't even care if Bhutto was a nice person or not. I want to know how did his speech end up breaking East Pakistan?
     
  10. ProudPak

    ProudPak FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    296
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2019
    Ratings:
    +0 / 339 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Then go read...I am not here to babysit it you and stuff a dummy in your mouth. If you can type you can Google l. Stop asking dumb questions
     
  11. SABRE

    SABRE FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    531
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Ratings:
    +5 / 635 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Why so offensive? I can google & I can read. But Google & Wikipedia are no places for research or to gain knowledge from. Talk about JStore and the likes of it. But that's beside the point. The point is whether you can prove congruency, causal mechanism and causal links between Bhutto's speech and actions and the fall of Dhaka? There is no one in Pakistan today making controversial statements against Balochs, yet we have Baloch insurgency. Congruence and causal explanations are very simple research methods. Since you are fond of Google, do a search on these methods and put whatever literature you have been reading to test to prove (or disprove) your argument. Bhutto at best was one of the last intervening phenomena and by no means the antecedent phenomenon in the creation of Bangladesh. In simple, he is "ONE" of the last straws that broke the camel's back. But his worth was exactly that of straw compared to the burden put on East Pakistan by the West Pakistani establishment.

    Coming to the topic, Bhutto is the soul and sole mastermind of Pakistan's nuclear weapons programme. Had there been someone else in his place I don't see Pakistan with nukes then. He came up with the proposal in the 1960s and the establishment scoffed at him. Post-1979, that very same establishment appointed itself as the hero and saviour of the programme, which it definitely is, but credit is due where credit belongs.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  12. RIWWIR

    RIWWIR SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    5,094
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2019
    Ratings:
    +3 / 7,380 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    I believe that clubbing East and West Pakistan, together, as one country, in 1947, was a mistake, which was corrected in 1971, albeit under far from pleasant circumstances. It was not possible for these two geographically separate entities, with a hostile country in between, to remain together for long.

    ZAB had no role whatsoever in the breakup of Pakistan in 1971. Reference a previous post by another poster, Bhutto never uttered the words "Udhar Tum, Idhar Hum", commonly ascribed to him. Based upon his speech, this phrase was coined by the journalist Abbas Athar and produced as a headline in his tabloid news paper "Daily Azad". From there, it was picked by Bhutto's opponents and given a currency.

    You are perfectly right.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  13. M. Sarmad

    M. Sarmad SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    5,259
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Ratings:
    +64 / 8,403 / -16
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan

    PPP 1970 Election Manifesto:


    X - NATIONAL DEFENCE
    The shortcomings of our system of military defence must be made good. Since previous governments have not taken the trouble of establishing an infrastructure of heavy industries comprising the production of iron and steel, the manufacture of machine tools and the working of non- ferrous metals, we are dependent today upon foreign countries for the importation of most types of weapons and military equipment. The greater numbers of weapons used by the defence forces are capable of being manufactured in Pakistan itself.

    The socialist regime will establish an armaments industry adequate for national requirements. For this purpose the basic industries will have to be established first. For example, the production of steel of the qualities required facilities for manufacturing machine tools and heavy chemicals, plants for the production of chemicals used in the making of explosives. The manufacture of vehicles and motors will be undertaken. It ought to be possible to meet the military requirements of vehicles, even of armored types, from local production, except for such as axe of special nature and whose production will not repay the trouble. The manufacture of ballistic and guided missiles will form part of the armaments programmes.

    Pakistan will develop its nuclear capability to prepare for all eventualities.

    The defence of East Pakistan will be strengthened by the establishment there of adequate military installations for ground forces, the air force and the navy, and the stationing in the country of the requisite military personnel so that any attempt a t aggression from outside can be both repulsed and punished. The Party insists upon:

    (a)The rights of every man to bear arms to protect his own life and the life and honour of his family;
    (b) and his right to defend his against foreign aggression.

    A ‘Peoples Army’ will be created in all regions of the country. This will offer the substitute for the defence in depth which is geographically lacking. The existence of a people’s is the best deterrent to foreign aggression.
     
  14. Brass Knuckles

    Brass Knuckles SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    4,053
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2019
    Ratings:
    +0 / 2,645 / -1
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    PPP didn't promised for Bhutto's most favorite force federal security force in election manifesto
    which was used to kill the opponents of father of jamhoriat ZAB
     
  15. M. Sarmad

    M. Sarmad SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    5,259
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Ratings:
    +64 / 8,403 / -16
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Suhrawardy had led demands for an independent Bengal as early as April 1947, he was a Bengali nationalist who forged alliances with Communists and other leftist parties against the party he was forced to leave in 1948 i.e The Muslim League, and joined the Bengali nationalist Awami League

    Fazlul Haq, a leftist and social democrat, had left Muslim League in 1937 to form his own socialist party KPP (later revived as KSP). He rejoined ML for few years but subsequently resigned. He was dismissed and put under house arrest on charges that he wanted independence for East Bengal

    https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/udha...-edge-of-pakistan.592282/page-9#post-11031707

    The 1970 Manifesto of the party declared that there would be a federal force apart from police and army.