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Not much has changed for IAF a year after it was outgunned by Pakistan

mingle

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So, the PAF is not sleeping my little injun supporting fraand. We are also coming up with new weapon systems, new everythinggggs.
@Rafi sb Western or eastern Airbus claimed thousands of jobs at risk due to no EF order?? I am not in Fav of Russian system.
 

litman

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Can you enlighten us as where did the IAF performed in 1971....if you want to be ignorant to the fact that there was a single PAF squadron of F-86s against Ten IAF Squadrons in the Eastern sector then i guess you hold the winning combination.
well dear read the history . even the paf people themselves admitted that when they launched the preemptive strike on IAF air bases like they did before in 65 they couldnt find indian air force jets parked in the open like they were in 65. hardened shelters were constructed and in 71 paf couldnt carrry out a single pathankot like operation as this time they have learnt from the mistake they made in 65. even in the recent interview by kaiser tufail he openly said that we were victorious in 65 but if look at the air war in 71 it was more like a draw but as we lost the war so we cant brag about the performance of the air force alone. it is always better to look at things with a neutral mind rather then an already clouded mentality. i think i have said enough for any sensible person but if you still want to debate just to satisfy your ego then i dont have time to waste. thanks

IAF may be arrogant, but a force with upgraded Mirage 2000s and Su-30 MKI can be called anything but rusty. And no one in the PAF takes them lightly. PAF pilots do not train to go against a 2nd rate IAF but the best they have to offer.
rusty mindset, training, reflexes as they were not taking PAF serious . just like in 65 . in the book fizaya written about 30 years ago the indian authors mentioned that IAF was like a flying club at that time. they had numbers on their side and they were not taking paf as a worthy opponent and they paid a heavy price for that. but after 65 things improved and overall their performce improved in 71 as compare to 65.
 

kursed

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rusty mindset, training, reflexes as they were not taking PAF serious . just like in 65 . in the book fizaya written about 30 years ago the indian authors mentioned that IAF was like a flying club at that time. they had numbers on their side and they were not taking paf as a worthy opponent and they paid a heavy price for that. but after 65 things improved and overall their performce improved in 71 as compare to 65.
As I said, IAF may be arrogant but by what angle are you suggesting that an air force with some of the best aircraft in the region is a flying club? And by the same measure, what makes you think that PAF has not learnt any lessons from its own past? They did not sweat it out for last 10+ years, to let IAF one up them after one skirmish. If IAF wants to believe so, it'll again be arrogant. PAF does not train for a 2nd rate IAF.
 

litman

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As I said, IAF may be arrogant but by what angle are you suggesting that an air force with some of the best aircraft in the region is a flying club? And by the same measure, what makes you think that PAF has not learnt any lessons from its own past? They did not sweat it out for last 10+ years, to let IAF one up them after one skirmish. If IAF wants to believe so, it'll again be arrogant. PAF does not train for a 2nd rate IAF.
please show me where i have said that paf has not learnt anything from the past.
 

Windjammer

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well dear read the history . even the paf people themselves admitted that when they launched the preemptive strike on IAF air bases like they did before in 65 they couldnt find indian air force jets parked in the open like they were in 65. hardened shelters were constructed and in 71 paf couldnt carrry out a single pathankot like operation as this time they have learnt from the mistake they made in 65. even in the recent interview by kaiser tufail he openly said that we were victorious in 65 but if look at the air war in 71 it was more like a draw but as we lost the war so we cant brag about the performance of the air force alone. it is always better to look at things with a neutral mind rather then an already clouded mentality. i think i have said enough for any sensible person but if you still want to debate just to satisfy your ego then i dont have time to waste. thanks
You only write and post according to your liking....which is far from the truth.
Firstly they were nothing like preemptive strikes since artillery duels and dogfights had already taken place in Eastern sector in the last weeks of November...in any case, how does remaining hidden under HAS you consider as better performance and listen again to what KT said recently, the PAF in 1971 did a great job but the loss of Eastern wing clouded the performance.
 

StormBreaker

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As I said, IAF may be arrogant but by what angle are you suggesting that an air force with some of the best aircraft in the region is a flying club? And by the same measure, what makes you think that PAF has not learnt any lessons from its own past? They did not sweat it out for last 10+ years, to let IAF one up them after one skirmish. If IAF wants to believe so, it'll again be arrogant. PAF does not train for a 2nd rate IAF.
I have been focusing on the part “IAF might have learnt its lesson in terms of the usefulness of EW warfare and BVR combat” and hence on a spree to acquire related systems, but We might as well have learnt something, most probably in terms of Air defence and situational awareness. Hope to see some development soon from our side in this regard
 

litman

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You only write and post according to your liking....which is far from the truth.
Firstly they were nothing like preemptive strikes since artillery duels and dogfights had already taken place in Eastern sector in the last weeks of November...in any case, how does remaining hidden under HAS you consider as better performance and listen again to what KT said recently, the PAF in 1971 did a great job but the loss of Eastern wing clouded the performance.
read something about operation chengiz khan.
listen to what he said at 27:06. it was a sort of a tie.
 
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kursed

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I have been focusing on the part “IAF might have learnt its lesson in terms of the usefulness of EW warfare and BVR combat” and hence on a spree to acquire related systems, but We might as well have learnt something, most probably in terms of Air defence and situational awareness. Hope to see some development soon from our side in this regard
I feel like saying something but would be taken like Mastan Khan but I truly wish the top echelons of PAF were serious about this, before we take some serious losses and then they wake up.

I don't believe in the lack of money argument, a force that can come up with enough money to build golf courses, every year, has enough funds to secure Koral / Havasoj et al.
 

StormBreaker

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I feel like saying something but would be taken like Mastan Khan but I truly wish the top echelons of PAF were serious about this, before we take some serious losses and then they wake up.

I don't believe in the lack of money argument, a force that can come up with enough money to build golf courses, every year, has enough funds to secure Koral / Havasoj et al.
@MastanKhan is a very blessed critic i must say, out of pure patriotism and extreme concern, he drafts out the holes of our “Pakistani Personalities” specifically and how as a human, we are not doing our best in terms of defence. The golf courses, Variety of cooks, more to mention, much can be saved and be redirected towards procurement, but well...
 

litman

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How does this explain to what you claimed as ''Better performance by IAF''.
oo bhae ankhain khol ka parho and then talk. i said in the first post that the performnce of IAF was better in 71 then its own performance in 65.
 

kursed

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@MastanKhan is a very blessed critic i must say, out of pure patriotism and extreme concern, he drafts out the holes of our “Pakistani Personalities” specifically and how as a human, we are not doing our best in terms of defence. The golf courses, Variety of cooks, more to mention, much can be saved and be redirected towards procurement, but well...
It is not about doing better as a human being but that being absolute professionals demands that we put needs of the force; technological and material above and beyond everything else. That we still find enough money to waste on foolhardy stuff simply means they have enough money available. It's just getting wasted. Our staff-level people have their hangups, wish that would change at some point and before we take big ticket losses.
 

SecularNationalist

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So two interesting things:
1. Indians started praising out PAF.
2. No ridiculous claim of shooting down a PAF F-16 by Abhi.
3) Mirages didn't fail to hit their targets. There is a video proof is missing targets deliberately to send a message that next time their lives won't be spared by PAF.
Their was no panic and there were no Punjabi speaking. Our guys are professional .

Hopefully Pakistan can one day win a war against India.
?? Previously except never lost except 1971.
And recent 2019 was a winner for sure.
 

Windjammer

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Come on guys, do you expect PAF to release a weekly press brief on it's capabilities and acquirements of weapons and tactics.....pre-27th Feb. 2019, most of us regarded PAF a defensive force with some ad-hoc capabilities believing the IAF can detect PAF aircraft before they get airborne.
PAF has been working quietly to address any deficiencies and now even the ardent critic realize the importance of the airpower and no doubt PAF always knew this.
 

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