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No Pride & Joy Tejas Among 75 Aircraft to Fly Past on Republic Day

mig25

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Is this the reason you bought French Rafales when you have the mighty Tejas then?

Projecting your own insecurities?
Again! re-read, comprehend and then type. Rafale was part of the MMRCA. Tejas was in its infancy when MMRCA was floated around. I know I touched a raw nerve for you to jump in. not think and blindly type. Thank You!
 

Bleek

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Again! re-read, comprehend and then type. Rafale was part of the MMRCA. Tejas was in its infancy when MMRCA was floated around. I know I touched a raw nerve for you to jump in. not think and blindly type. Thank You!
It's quite a logical response, but you continue to deflect. The first Tejas was inducted back in 2016. The contract for the procurement of the Rafale was signed the same year.

If the Tejas is so mighty and "capable", why did you opt for Rafales? Does that indicate your lack of capabilities?

I think it's clear who needs to re-read, make an attempt at comprehension and then reply.
 
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Tshering22

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Of course I don’t make any sense to you ….. how can anyone make sense with 45 inch pure steel chest worshiper ?..

I was 8 years old when TEja was conceived …. I am 43 now and Teja is still unable To fly over the crowd Or cities!!!!

here is an idea …. Turn Teja into a suicide drone …. It may work better that way…

Look at the timeline taken by veteran aircraft makers like Dassault and BAE when they made the Typhoon and Rafales - an average of 25 years, with multiple experts, nations, project teams, and over 20x the funds available. These were countries that have a long history in the aerospace sector and yet, they struggled to get aircraft out in under a decade.

That's how much time a typical aircraft design-to-manufacturing cycle takes, unless the country is a war economy, where their main exports are wars. Defense was always given the least priorities in India historically, with focus only on "minimum deterrence".

Even then, India managed to bring out the Tejas as a standalone fighter jet. Tejas is a successor to the HF-24 Marut, that was just capped after its first iteration and seeing 2 wars. Considering the budget limitations, economic situation, etc., it has been a learning curve that has withstood the test of time, finances, internal politics, arms lobbies, etc.

There are more Indian politicians who benefit from cancelling Indian projects than Pakistanis or Chinese. These people are in the pockets of global arms lobbies - the more foreign countries supply us, the further they delay indigenization & secure a customer market. Anyway, that's a topic to discuss separately.
 

mig25

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It's quite a logical response, but you continue to deflect. The first Tejas was inducted back in 2016. The contract for the procurement of the Rafale was signed the same year.

If the Tejas is so mighty and "capable", why did you opt for Rafales? Does that indicate your lack of capabilities?

I think it's clear who needs to re-read, make an attempt at comprehension and then reply.
I give up! There is a difference between MMRCA and LCA. The Tejas in its medium category avatar was not born yet as the Mark 2. Yes the Tejas is incapable matching the Rafale in every role.
However, in its role as a LCA, it holds its own. It may be punching above its weight right now, but it was envisioned to be a MIG-21 replacement. Nobody here compares the Tejas to the Rafale, can't say that about the Pakistanis here and in your own media that claim the JF-17 to be Rafale killers. If yes, why the need for a new Chinese aircraft? Get it? no more replies!
 

jupiter2007

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Apparently out of 75 aircraft, only 39 will be fighter jets , 28 helicopters while the rest will be transports and special mission types.

There will be a total of 39 fighter aircraft flying past -- 19 Jaguar, seven Rafale, seven Sukhoi, four MiG-29, and two MiG-29K.

What? Tejas is coming in the Truck?
1642456119218.jpeg
 

Flight of falcon

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Look at the timeline taken by veteran aircraft makers like Dassault and BAE when they made the Typhoon and Rafales - an average of 25 years, with multiple experts, nations, project teams, and over 20x the funds available. These were countries that have a long history in the aerospace sector and yet, they struggled to get aircraft out in under a decade.

That's how much time a typical aircraft design-to-manufacturing cycle takes, unless the country is a war economy, where their main exports are wars. Defense was always given the least priorities in India historically, with focus only on "minimum deterrence".

Even then, India managed to bring out the Tejas as a standalone fighter jet. Tejas is a successor to the HF-24 Marut, that was just capped after its first iteration and seeing 2 wars. Considering the budget limitations, economic situation, etc., it has been a learning curve that has withstood the test of time, finances, internal politics, arms lobbies, etc.

There are more Indian politicians who benefit from cancelling Indian projects than Pakistanis or Chinese. These people are in the pockets of global arms lobbies - the more foreign countries supply us, the further they delay indigenization & secure a customer market. Anyway, that's a topic to discuss separately.

I agree and respectfully would like to point out the role other nations played in designing and helping India with everything from the engine , avionics to cockpit displays etc.

Euro fighter took 11 years from conception to the first flight. Rafael evolved from Mirage 2000 into Mirage 4000 and finally into Rafael. French were smart and used the basic design and know how from Mirage series to build a good plane. Similarly JF17 can be argued to have used good basic design to be made into what it is today.

However for what ever reason Indians chose to reinvent wheel and went the way which should have been a success considering how much help they had available from foreign countries but instead ended up with a plane which is to risky to fly over Delhi.



I am not complaining at all…. I am happy Indians are investing their time , money and resources developing a plane that can fly in a straight line and is torisky to turn or manoeuvre in flight.

39 years on and Teja is not trusted to fly over our heads.
 

Bleek

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I give up! There is a difference between MMRCA and LCA. The Tejas in its medium category avatar was not born yet as the Mark 2. Yes the Tejas is incapable matching the Rafale in every role.
However, in its role as a LCA, it holds its own. It may be punching above its weight right now, but it was envisioned to be a MIG-21 replacement. Nobody here compares the Tejas to the Rafale, can't say that about the Pakistanis here and in your own media that claim the JF-17 to be Rafale killers. If yes, why the need for a new Chinese aircraft? Get it? no more replies!
Don't strawman, now you are talking about the media when the conversation was never about that. Look at you squealing after being proven as a fool.

This was your statement:
The announcement to buy a new Chinese Jet exposed Pakistan's lack of capabilities to evolve the JF-17 on its own -- That is the sole reason for the hate!!!

And now that you've been proven a fool, through a direct comparison of your Rafale induction while having the Tejas, you want to clarify the difference between lightweight and medium weight aircraft.

Tell me genius, what weight category is the JF-17 and the J-10C? Are they both heavyweights to you or something?

Classic andh bhakt moment 🥸
 

Brar

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I expected a little more informed comment from an advisor. Others are more or less into trolling but you could have given a balanced and an informed view.
Hahaha you expecting too much from these title holders. This whole forum, members and moderators have gone full retard long time. Enjoy the circus, and happy trolling🤣
 

Tshering22

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I agree and respectfully would like to point out the role other nations played in designing and helping India with everything from the engine , avionics to cockpit displays etc.

This is not some e-bike assembling that we are talking about. Think about it for a minute; a COUNTRY X, with colonial past and a socialist economy that is in doldrums after USSR's collapse. There was no liberalization and there are projects to be funded with very limited pool of talent and limited skills.

Do you really think design consultants would give you every single formula? These companies were also themselves manufacturers. Why would they give their best recipe to us for just a consulting fees? Also, the second aspect of design consulting is the ability to absorb that knowledge and replicate it in a result-oriented manner. Every country goes through this, including China.

Euro fighter took 11 years from conception to the first flight. Rafael evolved from Mirage 2000 into Mirage 4000 and finally into Rafael. French were smart and used the basic design and know how from Mirage series to build a good plane. Similarly JF17 can be argued to have used good basic design to be made into what it is today.

Yes, with 4 master countries with strong aerospace industries, plethora of aviation experience, money, power and availability of talent.... sure. Typhoon took 11 years from the stage they started actually doing something. The program started in 1983 with tonnes of political discussions, design concepts, debates, egos, etc. The same crap was happening in India as well. And then throughout the 90s, our economy was trying to shift from command economy to free market after USSR's collapse. Those were tough times - project had to be shelved. By the logic you are giving here, Tejas took only 15 years till LSP stage from 2001 to 2016.

However for what ever reason Indians chose to reinvent wheel and went the way which should have been a success considering how much help they had available from foreign countries but instead ended up with a plane which is to risky to fly over Delhi.

Please see my first point about how design consulting is done and what are the things that are given out. There are two challenges here: 1) How much the consulting company (themselves a manufacturer) gives away, and 2) how much the client country has the ability to absorb and how fast.

39 years on and Tejas is not trusted to fly over our heads.

Yes, that's why they were sent in 3 countries and is competing in 2 more in tenders giving flight demos, isn't it? The simple reason why they blocked all single-engine jets is due to perhaps internal politics. You see, Air Force pilots have a lot of pride in their squadrons and machines. Imagine the political egos of wing commanders hurt when they say "MiG-21 and Mirage 2000s cannot fly but Tejas can fly".

Tejas has over 10,000 hours logged and not a single crash has happened. And no, they cannot hide stuff like that unlike China here. As you would know here in PDF, most of Indian stuff is just openly available.

So your guess (apart from the disregard generally shown by Pakistanis on any technical points) is as good as mine.
 

Bossman

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All in all the Indians have no balls (or a single descended ball) and they cannot trust a single engine jet. No country in the world has such a rule. M2Ks fly through the heart of Paris.
 

Flight of falcon

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USSR did not collapse till 1988. They gave you all the space and rocket technology that you guys have . Respect for taking it successfully to the next level.

However incompetency and failure of DRDO to produce a dud like TeJa must also be acknowledged.

However this is not the point I was trying to make.
Taja is always presented as a marvellous achievement of Indian ingenuity and technology. It is neither.
It was designed, supported and taught by as many arms producing countries as one can think of. I agree that the designers and manufacturers don’t give away everything but taking 39 years for a product to reach a fly able condition ?

This plane is not even flying close to the border. Yes you can fly 10000 hours accident free but what does That prove? Is it flying operational sorties , flying CAPs, actual combat missions or just practicing takeoffs and landings ??
Why is it not deployed at the border ?

Teja can dream of putting up a performance like JF17 and be a back bone of your airforce . It’s an aircraft with mediocre performance in the hands of even worse pilots.

As for competing in international tenders I find it laughable. A plane not trusted to fly over your capital or fully accepted by your own airforce is offered to other airforces! Now that’s a joke.

Not trolling but I was not even born when Arjun was started ….. it’s still not accepted by your forces.
 

VkdIndian

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but if bird strikes are such a major concern then perhaps smack in the middle of it isn’t a smart policy anyway.
The event is held on Rajpath which is the venue. So you want to shift the entire event away because single engine flypast can’t be done? The place has historical significance.

After all, have the bird given you guys guarantees that they will only go into one engine?
There is a word called probability. It is a science in which possibility of an occurrence can be calculated. The same is much lower for a dual engine aircraft. So in nutshell BIRDs did inform us that they wouldn’t like to impact both engines of an aircraft.

After considering some stupid theories propagated on this thread we have decided to continue to organise the parade at the same venue and for safety of everyone dual engine and above is just fine for us.

After all trolls also need some food for their survival.
 

Flight of falcon

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The event is held on Rajpath which is the venue. So you want to shift the entire event away because single engine flypast can’t be done? The place has historical significance.


There is a word called probability. It is a science in which possibility of an occurrence can be calculated. The same is much lower for a dual engine aircraft. So in nutshell BIRDs did I form us that they wouldn’t like to impact both engines of an aircraft.

After considering some stupid theories propagated on this thread we have decided to continue to organise the parade at the same venue and for safety of everyone dual engine and above is just fine for us.

After all trolls also need some food for their survival.

It’s amazing the amount of nonsense , excuses and cowardice Modi is feeding you guys. It’s shameful what a big and powerful nation like yours has come down to.
 

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