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New fighter for PAF Doctrine?

Abid123

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LMAO at Pakistanis still wanting F-16s. Let it go. You are not going to get any F-16s. Be realistic. Pakistan has better options on the table. Would be good if PAF could induct the J-16. It would be hard now due to financial situation.
 

jupiter2007

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LMAO at Pakistanis still wanting F-16s. Let it go. You are not going to get any F-16s. Be realistic. Pakistan has better options on the table. Would be good if PAF could induct the J-16. It would be hard now due to financial situation.
If USA allows it, we can upgrade our current F-16 fleet and acquire used/surplus F-16s from USA, Europe, Jordan and Iraq. We need 36 to 48 planes for stop gap purpose.
 

Deino

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If USA allows it, we can upgrade our current F-16 fleet and acquire used/surplus F-16s from USA, Europe, Jordan and Iraq. We need 36 to 48 planes for stop gap purpose.

Sorry to say it once again ... this if is in fact huge like this:
1639057008348.png

... as such there is not even a chance to get them at the moment nor to get allowance to update them to Block 70 standards. As such no need to waste time, but instead its better to look for alternative options, the the (IMO) only viable one is the J-10C.
 

jupiter2007

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How can you buy some F16V while even you can't buy some AIM-120D and AIM-9X for your old F16.
That’s the million dollar question. Having a relationship with USA is very dangerous. They are used throwing tissues in the garbage once they are done. But if they need you, they will be willing to sell stuff to you.
 

luciferdd

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That’s the million dollar question. Having a relationship with USA is very dangerous. They are used throwing tissues in the garbage once they are done. But if they need you, they will be willing to sell stuff to you.
It's the point,the US may need Pakistan but they need India more and much more.That's why even PAF can not order some AIM120D and AIM9X.
 

The Eagle

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package and
Similarly with V upgrades and new kits. The way people.make a wish or demand and even in a particular case on the Forum want us to beg if need be (that was shame to read), I say that what good it is to use when you are held back to utilize it fully.

In my opinion, the lack of information about capability of J-10Cs made many homegrown experts to believe that it doesn't worth it. There's no data or blacked up source but still, people make claims and downplay the platform.
 

SQ8

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Similarly with V upgrades and new kits. The way people.make a wish or demand and even in a particular case on the Forum want us to beg if need be (that was shame to read), I say that what good it is to use when you are held back to utilize it fully.

In my opinion, the lack of information about capability of J-10Cs made many homegrown experts to believe that it doesn't worth it. There's no data or blacked up source but still, people make claims and downplay the platform.
The problem is everyone has opinions but they never elaborate it with some more meat. There is merit to the argument that the J-10C could be substituted by greater JF-17 buys for purely the local air superiority and BAI and OCA roles. However, the JF-17 is not a big aircraft and its planform can only carry so much with its engine capability. Finally, it isnt going beyond its 500km Hi-lo-lo-Hi radius with 2 drop tanks and no self defense BVR. The J-10C could be equipped with two BVR, a drop tank and 2 GPS kit gravity weapons to go 700km and back.
I will reiterate, if the V kits were ever released(and the latest democracy summit deal was the sand on top of the coffin already in the grave for it) the J-10C would have taken the backseat. If the V kits were released with permission for TAI to integrated the SOM - the J-10C has NO need.
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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The person is equating EW systems on both aircrafts. I’m not sure how that’s not technical.

The other question is about PL-15 being tied to the J10C buy. This was to my knowledge one of the basic points why the deal took a while to materialize. The other person is calling BS, well sure - it’s not my job to convince him otherwise.

Telling me that pilots are not in China, well, lol! Anyway, once the planes land we can tell who was on point and who wasn’t.

Feel free to go through my posts, I don’t cook up stuff or post hyperboles.
I heard this from another guy on this forum (up to him if he wants to reveal himself) many months ago. So, it's corroborated for sure.
 

SQ8

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I heard this from another guy on this forum (up to him if he wants to reveal himself) many months ago. So, it's corroborated for sure.
If it is optimized to use it based on a better ranged AESA then it makes sense too. No point in having a powerful sniper rifle without a matching scope.
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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Doesn't that speak volumes of then of the relationships between China and Pakistan?
Absolutely. That's why I said we should've gone and made an AAM with South Africa back in 2016...


These days, I only vibe for Turkey because the Turks literally invited us to work with them. However, if we can break further and be independent on our own two feet, then I'm all for it. tbh, I rather we do not tie ourselves to any large power, China included. We should think bigger because our civilizational roots demand more.
 

The Eagle

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The problem is everyone has opinions but they never elaborate it with some more meat. There is merit to the argument that the J-10C could be substituted by greater JF-17 buys for purely the local air superiority and BAI and OCA roles. However, the JF-17 is not a big aircraft and its planform can only carry so much with its engine capability. Finally, it isnt going beyond its 500km Hi-lo-lo-Hi radius with 2 drop tanks and no self defense BVR. The J-10C could be equipped with two BVR, a drop tank and 2 GPS kit gravity weapons to go 700km and back.
I will reiterate, if the V kits were ever released(and the latest democracy summit deal was the sand on top of the coffin already in the grave for it) the J-10C would have taken the backseat. If the V kits were released with permission for TAI to integrated the SOM - the J-10C has NO need.
Speaking of JF-17 Thunder, I do feel on some point that people expected it to be the master of all. People going in round & round don't even consider that JF-17 Thunder in its current Form/Weight Class has to reach its maximum potential and that's it. It will remain a low to mid weight fighter given it's size & Engine.

No doubt that if V kits were supposed to be coming (now), J-10C wouldn't come forward as a point to insist upon or even discussion of a purchase. However, People undermining J-10C is far more unfortunate. Nobody knows specs but yet almost everyone jumps on the gun like it is not even a fighter. Man' we discussed Vipers at first given the infra & decades of experience but that doesn't makes J-10C some kind of a inferior or redundant platform. NO doubt that J-10C has its own quality & still worth it.

JF-17 Block-III is indeed a capable fighter in its weight class, size & worth spending but there's always a short leg for every platform which is understandable. However, I see that PAF needs to fill a hole before AZM and that can only be done in a form of a 4.5++ fighter jet. The wish list may still include the EFT.
I heard this from another guy on this forum (up to him if he wants to reveal himself) many months ago. So, it's corroborated for sure.
An argument created for the sake of much of criticism but there's more to meet an eye. I don't see such argument holds any weight. If there was a bit of a situation like that, trust me, other OEMs / Uncle Sam types / Political Influencers would have loved to create a crack & filled the gape.
 

sparten

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1. J10C will come with a Chinese engine, not Russian.
2. Pakistan would not have gotten PL-15 (for JF-17), without the J10C deal.
3. The aircraft is an entirely different beast in terms of EW and flight performance vs JF-17.
4. PAF needed an interim fighter to offset the advantage Rafael + Meteor combination would give to IAF.
5. J10C is one of the most worked at systems within PLAAF, it's an established platform with extensive after-sales support capacity within China.
6. The platform is almost guaranteed to see immediate software and avionics updates over the course of its life cycle, to upgrade the jet's performance as it starts operating in this corner of the world.
7. PAF pilots are already in China getting trained on the aircraft so we'd see the first ferry flights back home within the first couple of months of 2022.
My response is that while it has advantages over the Thunder, it doesn't:
1. Provide enough of an advantage to justify the costs, especially the logistical costs of a new platform and its supporting infrastructure.
2. Fulfill the longstanding need we have, of a large twin-engine fighter.
 

Akh1112

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Guys there are some facts we blindly ignore as patwaris

If j 10 brings same weapon package as thunder the major difference wont be much and russian engine do not produce enogh power to let AESA radar of J 10 work at its full potential

Only. Difference is
Better manuverability
Carry more missiles

For me its not enough

India have signed a deal to upgrade all rafales to F4 varient standard which has better protection with dummy target to save it self from imminent destruction

Rafale has better instantaneous turn rate than j 10
J 10 has some major flaws
how do you know the power requirements of its radar?
 

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