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New fighter for PAF Doctrine?

JawadKKhan

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"Rights group" worried on F-16s being end up in "Wrong hands" Its hiliarious indian media after all.

correct way to narrate would be "Right wing groups" scared from "skillful hands"

BTW, I think Pakistan hasn't even bothered to check with them. I think PAF knows every F-16 sale requires US permission so no need to bother at all !?
 

Trailer23

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BTW I think Pakistan hasn't even bothered to check with them. I think PAF knows every F-16 sale requires US permission so no need to bother at all !?
Well I can't comment on what all interest(s) the PAF has taken in regard to European F-16's.

I will say that the US didn't put up a fight when we were out to pick up the Royal Jordanian AF Vipers back in 2014.

Didn't we recently help evacuate their Chinooks from Afghanistan. What were all those Visas for?

It's not as if they're Block 52's...

I belive these are the ones manufactured by Fokker under the License of General Dynamics back in the day.
 

Shotgunner51

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JFT needs a 10tones class engine(F414),EJ-200 as a 9tones class engine is not the best opion.
I guess what @Basel said is the "compact size" of EJ200, it's indeed a super slim engine with only 29 inch diameter, dry weight less than 1 ton, so thrust-to-weight ratio is good at above 9. WS-13E reaches 9.5 tons, close to F414, thrust-to-weight ratio also above 9.
EJ-200 is compact engine it most probably will fit in JAS-39, the same engine is also available for JFT.
Yes its more compact than F404/414 currently used on Gripen, so engine room is not a problem.
 
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JawadKKhan

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I will say that the US didn't put up a fight when we were out to pick up the Royal Jordanian AF Vipers back in 2014.
IMO, US probably needed us around that time in 2014 in one way or the other for our proximity, influence, supply route for Afghanistan. Now even if we helped them vacate or whatever, they don't give a damn because they don't need us. Plus all the noise that was created for Pakistan's role in removal of Ghani regime is another big blow in relationship. US is now focused on more important issue that's keeping its throne of super-power seat for as long as possible, for that its laser focused on China. Its using india against it (Quad and all that) . That close relationship with india is another factor.

However, if improvement is made in Pak-US relationship then its quite possible to get old Vipers as there are 100s of them in airforces around world and even in US airforce going to be replaced in this decade. No way we'll get block 52 or future ones but only olders one and that also is connected with improved relations
 

araz

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Well I can't comment on what all interest(s) the PAF has taken in regard to European F-16's.

I will say that the US didn't put up a fight when we were out to pick up the Royal Jordanian AF Vipers back in 2014.

Didn't we recently help evacuate their Chinooks from Afghanistan. What were all those Visas for?

It's not as if they're Block 52's...

I belive these are the ones manufactured by Fokker under the License of General Dynamics back in the day.
I strongly suspect those 13 F16s were in leiu of the ones we did not accept from the US Navy aggressor unit on account of rough useage. I dont think the US has given us any freebies and will not do so. The 8F16s which we wanted were refused funding effectively killing any chance of getting anymore 16s. With Afghanistan resolved ( whatever the current mess is called!!), the US has no long term interests left in Pakistan to annoy Indians who may be in a position to be a thorn in China's side( not that they will be). We have strategically alligned ourselves with China and the US is in the other camp. So more armaments especually the F16s are off the table. Things can and do change but whether that will make any difference remains to be seen.

A
 
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denel

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Yep, but even when we tour leaders, we never do any prep work in advance.

Instead of parking money in real estate, what if our leaders and elite invested in those countries? Imagine the headlines, "Pakistani businessmen invest $3 billion in Canada" or "Pakistani businesses to add 10,000 jobs to Sweden" and so on. I'm talking about the money leaving Pakistan; we can't even finesse the corruption in favour of our national interests.

We have all these people who look like liberal progressives, yet they can't articulate a single liberal concept. If they do, it's always against Pakistan. Imagine coaching a few of these people into becoming academics, journalists, and social commentators in Sweden? They can finesse the Swedish population to think along our lines (albeit over a 10-15-year period).

Pakistani leadership is functionally inept at everything it does. Our dictators can't do dictatorships properly, our democrats can't do the democracy right, our maulvis can't do Islam right, our liberals can't do liberalism right. We Pakistanis are a nation of South Park characters.
Iqbal's shikwa of malais in the nation is correct even today. Bang e dara should be made a compulsory reading for all students ... starting with all the mullah brigades and Politicians.

It is a shame truely.... Poets dream of nations but politicians destroy those nations they dreamt of.
 

kursed

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I'm asking you since you made the comparison.
I’m quoting folks who actually are part of the deal making scene, was the first to break the news here too. You can argue against it, sure, but all of this to and fro will be rhetorical unless someone actually gives out performance numbers - which won’t happen.
 

SQ8

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Iqbal's shikwa of malais in the nation is correct even today. Bang e dara should be made a compulsory reading for all students ... starting with all the mullah brigades and Politicians.

It is a shame truely.... Poets dream of nations but politicians destroy those nations they dreamt of.
Iqbal’s role in Pakistan went from Iqbal’s Pakistan to that poet known as Iqbal Sialkoti.
 

SQ8

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I’m quoting folks who actually are part of the deal making scene, was the first to break the news here too. You can argue against it, sure, but all of this to and fro will be rhetorical unless someone actually gives out performance numbers - which won’t happen.
Do you know the key objection being raised? I know its not technical per se
 

kursed

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Do you know the key objection being raised? I know its not technical per se
The person is equating EW systems on both aircrafts. I’m not sure how that’s not technical.

The other question is about PL-15 being tied to the J10C buy. This was to my knowledge one of the basic points why the deal took a while to materialize. The other person is calling BS, well sure - it’s not my job to convince him otherwise.

Telling me that pilots are not in China, well, lol! Anyway, once the planes land we can tell who was on point and who wasn’t.

Feel free to go through my posts, I don’t cook up stuff or post hyperboles.
 
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GriffinsRule

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I think there were domestic politics involved too and some of these countries might not want to sell to Pakistan either. I would also say, era of buying Block 15s (MLUed) should be behind us. We need to put our money where our mouth is and if national security is in such dire straits (which I dont think is the case) then bite the bullet and spend billions on new F-16s or Eurofighters or Gripen Es. Problem really is that our pockets don't match our desires and hence we are forced to window shop around and finally end up at the discount Chinese store.

You can sometimes see hints of this beggar approach when you will see posts every now and then about getting jets for free from ME or even China on some completely unrealistic premises.
 

Ghessan

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"Rights group" worried on F-16s being end up in "Wrong hands" Its hiliarious indian media after all.

correct way to narrate would be "Right wing groups" scared from "skillful hands"

BTW, I think Pakistan hasn't even bothered to check with them. I think PAF knows every F-16 sale requires US permission so no need to bother at all !?
these organizations and their stance, they don't even have to pass such comment as they have no concern regarding sale of F-16, when it is big boss who will say no or yes in selling a machine.

when US says sell it to a rouge state by declaring state is not rouge, everything will be fine.
 

SQ8

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The person is equating EW systems on both aircrafts. I’m not sure how that’s not technical.

The other question is about PL-15 being tied to the J10C buy. This was to my knowledge one of the basic points why the deal took a while to materialize. The other person is calling BS, well sure - it’s not my job to convince him otherwise.

Telling me that pilots are not in China, well, lol! Anyway, once the planes land we can tell who was on point and who wasn’t.

Feel free to go through my posts, I don’t cook up stuff or post hyperboles.
I was referring to the PAF’s objections which were not technical but linked to the package and terms. If they were resolved then good.
 

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