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New fighter for PAF Doctrine?

SD 10

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I dont agree paf made a right choice it is a panic tion

We should have thoight of gripens in small numbers
Gripen had worlds best EW suits

And complimented with Erieye AWACS in paf

Not a wise choice

Good but there should be sense

Paf did failed in kargil by not buying bvr missiles on time but india did this is why india bombed tiger hill our jets could not stopped them due to bvr with mirages

We lost it we lost ASW atlantique also

Accept the facts. Dont put faith blindly

Fact is there r some weaknesses which ignored

I have faith on ALLAH but dosent. Mean i do nothing
J 10 against sukhois and mirages will do better but rafale dont have chance
US items are a big NO! Gripen uses which engine?
 

redtom

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The J-10C is a superb platform touted even by western experts. What on earth is this all about?

This is an awkward moment. An export version of the J31 could be available within two years. Buying J10C as air superiority fighter at this time is a bit weak.

Of course, the J10C has some advantages. First, it's cheaper, maybe 50% or even 30% of the J31. Second, it can be delivered quickly and allows PAF to get training ahead of time. Delivery of the J31 is not expected until at least 2025. Third, as a single engine fighter has higher attack efficiency. Fourth, very good interception ability, and very low operating cost.

So, this is bound to be a controversial topic.
 

Deino

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Guys there are some facts we blindly ignore as patwaris

If j 10 brings same weapon package as thunder the major difference wont be much and russian engine do not produce enogh power to let AESA radar of J 10 work at its full potential

Only. Difference is
Better manuverability
Carry more missiles

For me its not enough

India have signed a deal to upgrade all rafales to F4 varient standard which has better protection with dummy target to save it self from imminent destruction

Rafale has better instantaneous turn rate than j 10
J 10 has some major flaws


First wrong premise: Why do you think it will use the Russian engine? IMO it surely won't even more since all post-mid-2019 built J-10Cs are using the WS-10B and if it provide enough power for the PLAAF's AESA, it will be enough for the PAF's variant too.

So in essence we know barely anything concerning the J-10's instantaneous turn rate and if the Rafale is better is not a proven thing. And even if, the JF-17 is surely even worse.

So IMO not the J- 10 has some major flaws, but your standpoint or do you suggest to purchase Rafales instead?
 

waz

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This is an awkward moment. An export version of the J31 could be available within two years. Buying J10C as air superiority fighter at this time is a bit weak.

Of course, the J10C has some advantages. First, it's cheaper, maybe 50% or even 30% of the J31. Second, it can be delivered quickly and allows PAF to get training ahead of time. Delivery of the J31 is not expected until at least 2025. Third, as a single engine fighter has higher attack efficiency. Fourth, very good interception ability, and very low operating cost.

So, this is bound to be a controversial topic.

Yes of course the ideal will be the J31 so there is no rush. My comment was aimed at the whole premise that the J-10C isn't worthy of purchase.
 

Super Falcon

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They should pivot to developing a Westernized sub-variant of the JF-17 -- i.e., Leonardo Grifo-E or Vixen 1000E and MBDA Meteor. Definitely not ideal, but at least it keeps the JF-17 moving (in a parallel direction) while also adding a necessary capability for the PAF to see, acclimate to (for defending against), and deploy offensively.

If they really want to buy something, make it the Gripen E/F. If only to ruin that as an option for India for its single-engine requirement, and maybe to secure Saab's design help for Project Azm (since Saab was offering help to other FGFA/NGF projects). If there's corruption, let's make it semi-useful at least.
Yes very very good idea since pak have good working relation with saab
Yes of course the ideal will be the J31 so there is no rush. My comment was aimed at the whole premise that the J-10C isn't worthy of purchase.
Yes its tottaly waste we need to buy twin engine jets even uae buying twin engine rafale jets
 

SD 10

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We can ask them for any other eu engine

If usa would have any problems with engines than we should have scraped our f 16 long ago it is pointless that usa block. Engines

Saab was a better jet in many terms
dude what are you on? EU engine is the same as US engline......................
 

Deino

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Bro j 10 has major flaws in engine

Its russian and need more maintance we already have one rd 93



Do you deliberately ignore the facts: All J-10Cs since mid-2019 are using the WS-10B. As such there is NOTHING that hints towards a Russian engine.
 

Irfan Baloch

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I dont agree paf made a right choice it is a panic tion

We should have thoight of gripens in small numbers
Gripen had worlds best EW suits

And complimented with Erieye AWACS in paf

Not a wise choice
Sweden allowed PAF to check out its latest Gripens but politely told them that they are not for sale. the Jets are exceptionally good as per PAF but Sweden was reluctant due to its bid for Indian MMRCA deal.
that time has gone now and even if SAAB gets the go ahead from Sweden then it wont be able to make the sale due to American components and its ITAR regime.
 

Ali_Baba

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Sweden allowed PAF to check out its latest Gripens but politely told them that they are not for sale. the Jets are exceptionally good as per PAF but Sweden was reluctant due to its bid for Indian MMRCA deal.
that time has gone now and even if SAAB gets the go ahead from Sweden then it wont be able to make the sale due to American components and its ITAR regime.

SAAB made a calculated business decision and they lost - there is a saying - a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush - and SAAB should have ran with what they had at the time. Now, they have nothing as India will never buy the Gripen - no matter what. India will never buy the GlobalEye or the Gripen and SAAB has nothing else to offer India.

Pakistan is the "model" customer for SAAB - what this shows is a company that simply does not understand its target customers at all by sidelining Pakistan for India ...
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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SAAB made a calculated business decision and they lost - there is a saying - a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush - and SAAB should have ran with what they had at the time. Now, they have nothing as India will never buy the Gripen - no matter what. India will never buy the GlobalEye or the Gripen and SAAB has nothing else to offer India.

Pakistan is the "model" customer for SAAB - what this shows is a company that simply does not understand its target customers at all by sidelining Pakistan for India ...
tbh I think Saab was always open to working with Pakistan. The real blocker is Sweden's politics. For example, in 1970, Saab was on the verge of selling us Saab 105s with local manufacturing. However, our issues in East Pakistan gave the Swedish political scene a reason to torpedo the deal. Similarly, efforts to market the Saab Viggin to Pakistan also went down the hill due to Swedish politics. I think Sweden's public perception of us is pretty bad, and we didn't do as much as we should have to win over Swedish politicians to our favour. Admittedly (as a PPP hater), the closest we got was with Benazir Bhutto, but at that time (1990s), the US was the real blocker.

We basically need '80s IK to finesse the situation for us.
 

Super Falcon

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Do you deliberately ignore the facts: All J-10Cs since mid-2019 are using the WS-10B. As such there is NOTHING that hints towards a Russian engine.
Bro j 10 is been using Al 31 e ven if we r getting them with ws 10 its not very matu4e engine since. Aircraft is single engine we cant take risk with new engine if it faile aircraft will get destroyed
Pak must enhagnce goodj relation with swdeen they offer better weapons sysyem

They r dying to sell gripen
Pakistan act sensible invasting in single suplier is deadly

That gripen betean chinese j 16 hands down with thai airforce exercise
 

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