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New fighter for PAF Doctrine?

Raider 21

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My dear...I think the beers is getting to your ability to read. Its not flying hours I was talking about its close air combat. USA and the west almost entirely focus on BVR.

Also when have the American come up against an opponent? ?? Iraqis ?? The airforce of the world vs Iraq?
I don't drink beer. I am Muslim. You enjoy
USAF, USN and USMC along with the rest of the West......they focus on ACM quite a lot and that includes both BVR and WVR.

Cheers!!!
 

StructE

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oh deer. you cracked me up. bless you

you dont need to be polite towards such absurd posts and tweets. we need to keep some standards.
Biden is not even calling our PM Khan and here we are making tweets about Pakistan getting F-35.

I think US Congress/ US Govt wont even clear a 2021-22 F 35 Calender
Besides the hard bargain Pakistan is doing, Biden has his own reasons to keep distance from Pakistan. Given that defeat was on horizon from last 6 years, it is Biden who has to deal with aftermath, appearing close to Pakistan will provide ammo to his opponents. While he seems to have no intent to follow Obama's Pakistan policy, he will appear tough for the purpose of domestic politics, I can expect somewhat normal US-Pak relations in a year or two.
 

Trango Towers

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USAF, USN and USMC along with the rest of the West......they focus on ACM quite a lot and that includes both BVR and WVR.

Cheers!!!
Why have you shifted frome talking about Indian to American? Can no one maintain focus and discus the point rather going off at a tangent? Please go back to my post and re read
 

Raider 21

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Why have you shifted frome talking about Indian to American? Can no one maintain focus and discus the point rather going off at a tangent? Please go back to my post and re read
Was just adding some info regarding your info about Western air forces concerning aerial combat
 

The Eagle

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Issue is our mindset when it comes to dual engines
I don't think that any professional Force will act upon the mindset instead of Doctrine, tactics, need of an equipment and it's role into plans. This is not the sole reason to deny Flanker or MiG as of yet.
 

jupiter2007

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I can tell you one thing. If China decides to sell J-16 to or we ask for them from China and China agrees, trust me China won't face any issue or protest from Russia. The game have changed. Right now China is main power not Russia. Russia needs China. Issue is our mindset when it comes to dual engines and cost of maintaining them.

J-16 is not a original Russian design. Chinese copy SU-27 to J-11 and then further developed it into J-11BS and from there created another variant J-16.
 

serenity

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China will not sell J-16 because SAC production of J-16 is demanded from PLAAF where every unit would be taken by PLAAF rather than allowed to be sold unless a few factory is opened up just for PAF but then PAF will need to order a lot of J-16. Nor would PAF buy J-16 since it is much more expensive than J-10 and PAF doesn't really need J-16 sort of range. PAF is looking for air superiority fighter and not multirole so half of J-16's strength in air to ground is wasted. PAF would find more efficient air to ground with investment into drones than expensive to maintain large multirole fighters which require two pilots to be trained and supported.

J-16D as a small batch of special mission aircraft is maybe simply because it fulfills a requirement, certainly more likely than J-16 fighter being sold and bought. However J-16D would not be a new fighter for PAF filling air superiority role then. So this would be aside if it is ever even considered.
 

Trailer23

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And USA is preparing war with China....
WAR?

With China?

What're you smokin', my man?

China isn't: Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya or Syria.

If there is a war, China will pump out Submarines, Jets & Aircraft Carriers just like the US pumps out Soda Cans.

The US knows full well, its a Lose - Lose situation if they're havin' a wet dream goin' up against China.
 

Bilal.

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WAR?

With China?

What're you smokin', my man?

China isn't: Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya or Syria.

If there is a war, China will pump out Submarines, Jets & Aircraft Carriers just like the US pumps out Soda Cans.

The US knows full well, its a Lose - Lose situation if they're havin' a wet dream goin' up against China.
Not to mention that there is a big chance of internal unrest in a decades time in US was it transitions from white majority to white minority.
 

araz

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WAR?

With China?

What're you smokin', my man?

China isn't: Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya or Syria.

If there is a war, China will pump out Submarines, Jets & Aircraft Carriers just like the US pumps out Soda C
The US knows full well, its a Lose - Lose situation if they're havin' a wet dream goin' up against China.
I agree and disagree with you. The war is ongoing but the theatre is very different. There may not be any war of the kind people think of but the war is being fought on the financial chess board.
I do not think the idea is to start a conventional war but to achieve the aims of keeping the dollar as the dominent currency. China holds the US in a bind because of the debt bonds it carries and the US will try all tricks to ensure it does not make any moves against it. The idea is not to dsstroy the Chinese or US but to create enough chaos to make any financial misadventire so hefty on the pockets China will not go for it.
The danger lies in the cat and mouse game and one false move could set up a different set of dynamics which neither the US or China will control. The theatres are being set up to play the game possibly with some loss of lives but not enough to bother either the US or China. Most of the aggressive maneouvres will be played out in international arenas other tjan the Chinese and US mainlands
Victory for China will be an advance into the industrial output and take over of the civilized world through aggressive export strategy. The dollar will then collapse but most lilely the Chinese will mitigate the loss through some other means. It would spell disaster for the US. Defeat for China would be continuing ascendency of the dollar and force China into a situation where it will have to share the resources of the world with the US.
This remains my view therefore likely to be totally wrong.
A
 

Khaqan Humayun

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OK! At the expense of losing my sanity let me explain a few things to you in the hope that you will understand how air force procurement works. The fighter that you see was a tech demonstrator. This means that Lockmart thinks that given the resources it can develop such a fighter with such qualities. The US govtt would look at it and say we have a better fighter in F15 which can carry the same amount of ordinance therefore we will stick with F15. Now if they had decided to go for the XL, Lockmart would ask them to appropriate funding for extensive research so that the fighter can be prepared. This maybe little as the base research is already there or a lot if a problem develops in the fighter on further use/development.
Now if PAF were to go and ask Lockmart"please can we have the XL, they would ask you to foot the development cost of the fighter. UAE put in 800million(PLEASE CORRECT IF Iam wrong) for the AESA integration on the Desert falcon. So even before you can get the fighter you will agree to foot the costs of integration and development which could be any where between 500 million to a couple of billion. The Lockmart may have to set up facilities to build the XL as I do not think they would do it on the current site. So it might either add to your costs or delay the project till they are done with the current order and then rejig the assembly for the XL as it will require a different assembly setup for the XL.
Now add that cost to your bill. Now add the cost of 36 fighters which you will need. The cost will be astronomical considering you will be paying 120-150 million (plus2 billion÷36+rejigging costs which could be a billion ÷36).
Now that you have this fighter you have issues with the US government and its tendency to sanction you which comes into your reckoning. Add to that the risk of having a fighter which no one else owns in the world including the parent air force in your calculus making you dependent on any issue resolution on Lockmart which will be added to the cost. Spares will have to rely on the US alone as no one else has the fighter( you can bet your dirty chaddi the US is going to use equipment which can only be repaired in US).
NOW do you perceive any risk in the buy? Is it a good idea to buy the XL in your view and how do you get the money and mitigate the risk of developed fighters sitting on some boneyard while the US govtt devises new ways to screw the PAF And the state of Pakistan?
If you still think it is a good idea then I give up trying to explain things to you.
A
PAF must to not ask to Lockheed Martin
I said PAC must study about Delta Wings.
 

araz

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PAF must to not ask to Lockheed Martin
I said PAC must study about Delta Wings.
Beta.
Sari raat katha sunni par subha pochray ho Majnoon mard tha ke aurat.( Iam old so I do have the right to address you as Beta even if you are in your 40s or 50s.). I wont bore you with more litany as I feel it is not effective but read up on the F16 XL development. Before the design was finalized 22 permutations were tried for the wings. Do you know the R&D budget of Lockmart? Compare that with the R&D budget of PAC. Compare the industrial maturity of Lockmart and PAC. Most importantly justify the need for a delta development by PAC.
A
 

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