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New fighter for PAF Doctrine?

KaiserX

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Logically its makes sense for the PAF to leverage its JF17 expertise towards producing the J31 in the next few years. It is pretty much a double engined stealth JF17. A goal of minimum 110-120 for the PAF in the next decade.

AZM I see becoming a fighter that is very similar to the J20. No matter what most people discount. I feel PAF may order a small batch to be produced/tested in China and eventually be produced in Pakistan. I see 150 of such fighter being produced.

Pretty much PAF will focus on the JF17 B3, with logically next blocks being J31s produced in Pakistan with eventually AZM being produced as well. May seen tough for people to comprehend but if we keep with the same pace of development in the last 15 years this can be done in the next 15 years. Overall can and will PAF produce/procure 250-350 fighters (combo of JF17B3, J31, J20/AZM) is likely achievable.
 

araz

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Logically its makes sense for the PAF to leverage its JF17 expertise towards producing the J31 in the next few years. It is pretty much a double engined stealth JF17. A goal of minimum 110-120 for the PAF in the next decade.

AZM I see becoming a fighter that is very similar to the J20. No matter what most people discount. I feel PAF may order a small batch to be produced/tested in China and eventually be produced in Pakistan. I see 150 of such fighter being produced.

Pretty much PAF will focus on the JF17 B3, with logically next blocks being J31s produced in Pakistan with eventually AZM being produced as well. May seen tough for people to comprehend but if we keep with the same pace of development in the last 15 years this can be done in the next 15 years. Overall can and will PAF produce/procure 250-350 fighters (combo of JF17B3, J31, J20/AZM) is likely achievable.
The problem at the moment is/we neither know which state the Azm 5th generation produce is nor do we know the state of readiness of the AMF. The last time a protoype was brought out was 2-3 yrs ago with a projected date of 2023-25 for finishing. This would therefore be a risky venture as we do not know whether the PLAAF is procuring it or not. The PLAN possible F35 is nowhere to be found either which leads me to believe this is/merely a tech demonstrator. The risk is in assessing what is required to convert a tech demo into a ational fighter jet project, what the cost outlays will be and what teething problems will be encountered . Unlike the JFT the Chinese govtt infrastructure cannot back this project so there is a risk you may be lefto ut in the cold in case/of a problem.
A
 

KaiserX

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The problem at the moment is/we neither know which state the Azm 5th generation produce is nor do we know the state of readiness of the AMF. The last time a protoype was brought out was 2-3 yrs ago with a projected date of 2023-25 for finishing. This would therefore be a risky venture as we do not know whether the PLAAF is procuring it or not. The PLAN possible F35 is nowhere to be found either which leads me to believe this is/merely a tech demonstrator. The risk is in assessing what is required to convert a tech demo into a ational fighter jet project, what the cost outlays will be and what teething problems will be encountered . Unlike the JFT the Chinese govtt infrastructure cannot back this project so there is a risk you may be lefto ut in the cold in case/of a problem.
A
There was never any assumption made by AZM planners that the PLAAF would procure such fighters. The AZM program is purely keeping Pakistans requirements in mind. Realistically the average cost of such a fighter will easily be in the 60-70 million range. It sill be a long term commitment for the PAF will possible export order to the Gulf/North Africa.

Id look at for Qatar. Last I spoke with a PAF official and he alluded to Qatari funding in certain PAF projects. He told me they have taken very keen interest in the latest projects being developed at KAMRA. This may mean a very substantial JF17B3 order, or investments into PAF projects itself, or even a combination of the two.

PAF may take such a route (getting key technologies/funding) via Qatar/Turkey similarly to how nukes were acquired via Saudi Arabia.

Lastly id like to point out with recent JF17 orders. Pakistan can at minimum expect 2 BN USD in order within the next few years. I know not all of that will be profit but even if a fraction of such funds are reinvested into the 5th Generation program then foreign funding may be avoided altogether.
 

araz

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There was never any assumption made by AZM planners that the PLAAF would procure such fighters. The AZM program is purely keeping Pakistans requirements in mind. Realistically the average cost of such a fighter will easily be in the 60-70 million range. It sill be a long term commitment for the PAF will possible export order to the Gulf/North Africa.

Id look at for Qatar. Last I spoke with a PAF official and he alluded to Qatari funding in certain PAF projects. He told me they have taken very keen interest in the latest projects being developed at KAMRA. This may mean a very substantial JF17B3 order, or investments into PAF projects itself, or even a combination of the two.

PAF may take such a route (getting key technologies/funding) via Qatar/Turkey similarly to how nukes were acquired via Saudi Arabia.

Lastly id like to point out with recent JF17 orders. Pakistan can at minimum expect 2 BN USD in order within the next few years. I know not all of that will be profit but even if a fraction of such funds are reinvested into the 5th Generation program then foreign funding may be avoided altogether.
I think the risks in acquiring a half cooked product are significantly more. PAC even if it goes for the F31/35 will want the Chinese to mature the product and if upto its standard will acquire it with TOT. PAF/PAC chatter seems to point towards this line of thinking. It maybe possible provided money is forthcoming from suitable quarters to take the project on but the sunk costs of a half baked project could become and endless pit and previous PAC practice makes me think PAF/PAC will not go down this route. You may remember PAF has made a statement calling TFX to be what PAF needs. No such statement has come out about F31 which makes me think PAF currently remains uninterested. On the contrary ex PAF officials have pointed to J20 as a possible acquisition in future when it becomes available. The last we heard PAC had completed the first drawing of Azm and was looking at finalizing its product. We have been quoted late 20s to mid 30s for project maturity. So the project seems to be on its way. I do not thinl PAC will come to this stage and then drop everything and then take up a half baked project to mature it . On the other hand many technologies escape PAC'Scapabilities and engine acquisition remains a major big bear. If we go to China for their engines we will have pressure on us to accept F31/35, but if the russians/or the Turkish provide the engines then we will retain our options. Let us watch this space.
A
 

araz

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J31 can only be inducted in limited numbers to fill stop-gap till AZM, local assembly seems really no sense at all
Even then it needs to mature before PAF will take it on. On its current development trajectory that seems too far in the future
 

Readerdefence

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Hi we all need to keep in mind as very soon Chinese Third ACC coming on line they need j35 asap so even if the production is about 20/25 a year I suppose PAF will be getting these birds around 4/5 years after the production starts
thank you
 

Khaqan Humayun

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The twin-engine platforms have better take-off and climb performance, higher cruising speed, larger payload or passenger capacity and most important of all, these provide for higher levels of air safety as in the event of loss of power on one engine, the aircraft can continue to fly and land safely.

PAC already working on single engine JF-17.

Air superiority fighter
As fighter types have proliferated, the air superiority fighter emerged as a specific role at the pinnacle of speed, maneuverability, and air-to-air weapon systems – able to hold its own against all other fighters and establish its dominance in the skies above the battlefield.

JF-17-re d.jpg

JF-17-re d 2.jpg

JF-17-re d 3.jpg

JF-17-re d 4.jpg

PAC can make twin engine fighter Jet, as they have quality to make single engine aircraft.

Air superiority fighters are primarily tasked to perform aerial combats against agile, lightly armed aircraft (most often enemy fighters) and eliminate any challenge over control of the airspace, although some (e.g. strike fighters) may have a secondary role for air-to-surface attacks.
 
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m52k85

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The twin-engine platforms have better take-off and climb performance, higher cruising speed, larger payload or passenger capacity and most important of all, these provide for higher levels of air safety as in the event of loss of power on one engine, the aircraft can continue to fly and land safely.

PAC already working on single engine JF-17.


Air superiority fighter
As fighter types have proliferated, the air superiority fighter emerged as a specific role at the pinnacle of speed, maneuverability, and air-to-air weapon systems – able to hold its own against all other fighters and establish its dominance in the skies above the battlefield.

View attachment 785255
View attachment 785256
View attachment 785257
View attachment 785258
PAC can make twin engine fighter Jet, as they have quality to make single engine aircraft.

Air superiority fighters are primarily tasked to perform aerial combats against agile, lightly armed aircraft (most often enemy fighters) and eliminate any challenge over control of the airspace, although some (e.g. strike fighters) may have a secondary role for air-to-surface attacks.
Twin engine also have higher maintenance cost, less efficiency, less flexibility and most significantly larger radar returns.
 

Deino

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The twin-engine platforms have better take-off and climb performance, higher cruising speed, larger payload or passenger capacity and most important of all, these provide for higher levels of air safety as in the event of loss of power on one engine, the aircraft can continue to fly and land safely.

PAC already working on single engine JF-17.

....
PAC can make twin engine fighter Jet, as they have quality to make single engine aircraft.

Air superiority fighters are primarily tasked to perform aerial combats against agile, lightly armed aircraft (most often enemy fighters) and eliminate any challenge over control of the airspace, although some (e.g. strike fighters) may have a secondary role for air-to-surface attacks.

First of all, there is no need to write in bolt and second ... what a twisted and simple minded logic? Only since PAC has they have quality to make single engine, they surely can make twin engine fighter aircraft, but the reason why they don't do it are several and here most of all cost.
 

TsAr

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Yeah, based on countless rumors, news from twitter & other esteem Forums - they should be operational by now.

I just wonder where those people are who were '😆' everytime I questioned 'em.

Must've found another Forum to give others false hope.
The induction of HQ9P should be a reminder for you, but some people just would never get it.
 

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