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New fighter for PAF Doctrine?

Thorough Pro

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Ground launched starts at 0 elevation and 0 velocity, air-launched starts at above 30,000 feet and close to Mach 1 and close to the target

Playing the spoiler in so many situations I’m always hoping I’m proven wrong anyways 😛

An ALCM realistically can’t have the same kind of range as ground launched cruise missile, on the ground you can make it as big as you want, in the air you’re limited to the size and capacity of the aircraft. We don’t have large bomber to carry long range cruise missiles. So it’s not easy to increase the range without making the missile bigger.
 

Riz

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I am pretty sure the pilots' training and infrastructure has already been catered for.
Work is still going on few of our important airbases for chines trainers houses , no pak pilot going to china for getting J-10C training but chines will train our pilots here in Pakistan ..Pak will receive a batch of J-10C fighters any time at the end of this year or at the start of next year
 
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serenity

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Hopefully they come with the equipment to be used as EW platforms, similar to the J-16 EW. Some as fighters, and some as EW platforms along side Block 3 JF-17 should allow the PAF to optimize tactics and strategies within our budget.
There is no EW version of J-10. J-16D and J-15D are total EW dedicated aircraft that they will probably only have anti-radiation weapons if any weapons.

PAF J-10 will be downgraded J-10C. It is already hinted that any J-10 for PAF will need to meet low cost expectation and J-10C is too expensive to buy in the number PAF wants. It is suspected J-10C also has some capabilities the PAF does not require and so will remove certain things to reduce the cost. Apart from that, I think we can expect to see the exact same J-10C just with certain equipment removed.

For dedicated EW, there is J-16D only at the moment. It is not available for export due to respect to Russia to sell their flanker design even if it is EW only and all internal systems by J-16 has been totally different. Even the manufacturing process has changed a lot since then.

PAF should find dedicated EW aircraft for that purpose. J-10 at most can carry some pods and jammers which may be very useful but cannot replace dedicated EW.

For Blinders replacement the same type of platform would be Y-8 and Y-9 EW and ECCM aircraft.
 

ACE OF HEARTS

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There is no EW version of J-10. J-16D and J-15D are total EW dedicated aircraft that they will probably only have anti-radiation weapons if any weapons.

PAF J-10 will be downgraded J-10C. It is already hinted that any J-10 for PAF will need to meet low cost expectation and J-10C is too expensive to buy in the number PAF wants. It is suspected J-10C also has some capabilities the PAF does not require and so will remove certain things to reduce the cost. Apart from that, I think we can expect to see the exact same J-10C just with certain equipment removed.

For dedicated EW, there is J-16D only at the moment. It is not available for export due to respect to Russia to sell their flanker design even if it is EW only and all internal systems by J-16 has been totally different. Even the manufacturing process has changed a lot since then.

PAF should find dedicated EW aircraft for that purpose. J-10 at most can carry some pods and jammers which may be very useful but cannot replace dedicated EW.

For Blinders replacement the same type of platform would be Y-8 and Y-9 EW and ECCM aircraft.
What kind of equipment would be of no use to the PAF and would be removed?
 

serenity

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What kind of equipment would be of no use to the PAF and would be removed?
That I do not know and very few people would know. What has been said and accepted as true just by fans and followers is that the J-10 version that is discussed between China and Pakistan is slightly downgraded rather than enhanced due to cost and price requirements. I think each J-10C is about at least $50 million US dollars for PLAAF to buy? I can't remember accurately but I guess the sale price to Pakistan would be as reasonable as possible but still certainly not free. 36 of those fighters is quite a lot of money still. Basically without changes will almost be like 2 JF-17 block 3.
 

Muhammad Omar

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There is no EW version of J-10. J-16D and J-15D are total EW dedicated aircraft that they will probably only have anti-radiation weapons if any weapons.

PAF J-10 will be downgraded J-10C. It is already hinted that any J-10 for PAF will need to meet low cost expectation and J-10C is too expensive to buy in the number PAF wants. It is suspected J-10C also has some capabilities the PAF does not require and so will remove certain things to reduce the cost. Apart from that, I think we can expect to see the exact same J-10C just with certain equipment removed.

For dedicated EW, there is J-16D only at the moment. It is not available for export due to respect to Russia to sell their flanker design even if it is EW only and all internal systems by J-16 has been totally different. Even the manufacturing process has changed a lot since then.

PAF should find dedicated EW aircraft for that purpose. J-10 at most can carry some pods and jammers which may be very useful but cannot replace dedicated EW.

For Blinders replacement the same type of platform would be Y-8 and Y-9 EW and ECCM aircraft.
Why would PAF induct downgraded J-10?? If the cost is the issue they can induct more JF-17 Block 3.. Also China do offer soft loans on the procurements of equipment to Pakistan happened many times before...
 

serenity

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Why would PAF induct downgraded J-10?? If the cost is the issue they can induct more JF-17 Block 3.. Also China do offer soft loans on the procurements of equipment to Pakistan happened many times before...
Well to answer that question we require the information that those people have. It is impossible to evaluate true difference between JF-17 and J-10 and how much can buy what and whether it is worth it or not.

This is just a rumor anyway. It is not clear if it is true yet. Soft loans of course are going to be used. Even 36 fighters at around $50 million each in total is going to be $1.8 billion. Without even considering weapons, training, and spare parts.
 

iLION12345_1

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There is no EW version of J-10. J-16D and J-15D are total EW dedicated aircraft that they will probably only have anti-radiation weapons if any weapons.

PAF J-10 will be downgraded J-10C. It is already hinted that any J-10 for PAF will need to meet low cost expectation and J-10C is too expensive to buy in the number PAF wants. It is suspected J-10C also has some capabilities the PAF does not require and so will remove certain things to reduce the cost. Apart from that, I think we can expect to see the exact same J-10C just with certain equipment removed.

For dedicated EW, there is J-16D only at the moment. It is not available for export due to respect to Russia to sell their flanker design even if it is EW only and all internal systems by J-16 has been totally different. Even the manufacturing process has changed a lot since then.

PAF should find dedicated EW aircraft for that purpose. J-10 at most can carry some pods and jammers which may be very useful but cannot replace dedicated EW.

For Blinders replacement the same type of platform would be Y-8 and Y-9 EW and ECCM aircraft.
Why would PAF induct downgraded J-10?? If the cost is the issue they can induct more JF-17 Block 3.. Also China do offer soft loans on the procurements of equipment to Pakistan happened many times before...
People are over-estimating this “downgrade”
They won’t remove anything that hampers the performance of the aircraft in an A2A setting as that will be its primary role in the PAF.
That’s why we assumed that IRST and possibly OBOGS may be the things getting removed, as they will not do much to the aircraft but will bring the cost down, which is what the PAF needs.

People are also underestimating the amount of money PAF has, they’re not broke, yes we’re a poor nation with a limited budget but if all our other military acquisitions at the moment are any hint (and they’re frankly a massive hint) then PAF has the funds to acquire what they Need.

Even then, I wouldn’t believe said news of the “downgrade” just yet, it’s only been quoted by one source, and I know he’s credible, but he’s unofficial, just like all the other sources. Let’s wait and see what we get before we start making any assumptions about their price, numbers and capability, reduced or otherwise.

As for the EW variant, I highly doubt such a thing is happening, as serenity said, there is no J-10 EW variant, it has its inbuilt suite + Pod just like a normal fighter And J-16D is not for export.

I think I said this before but PAF Does not need a fighter based EW platform because larger and dedicated EW aircraft give better capability for less price.

Those fighter based solutions are for Air forces who have deeper strike missions or maritime missions as part of their doctrine where a large AWACS or EW bird cannot be taken. They require a lot of money and support infrastructure, something countries like the US and China can afford, we cannot. Even if we had an option.

PAF is in the process of acquiring another EW platform to support the DA-20 squadron, so they are aware of the need to expand the capability in this field And will do so with the platform they find suitable, but it will be a conventional one as that suits us better given our doctrine and geography. Let’s just wait and see what they get.
Well to answer that question we require the information that those people have. It is impossible to evaluate true difference between JF-17 and J-10 and how much can buy what and whether it is worth it or not.
Why would PAF induct downgraded J-10?? If the cost is the issue they can induct more JF-17 Block 3.. Also China do offer soft loans on the procurements of equipment to Pakistan happened many times before...
Simply because no matter how good you make a JF-17, it will always remain inferior to the J-10 because the J-10 is bigger, can go further, can go faster, can carry more, can have a bigger radar and hence have better BVR performance, the list goes on.

The PAF is buying a medium-weight fighter because it needs a medium weight fighter to complement the F-16s. If they didn’t have need for it and the JF-17 could do everything it can, why’d PAF want the J-10?

The fighter will be equipped according to the PAFs roles and requirements, which will certainly be different from those of the PLAAF.
 

PurpleButcher

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I think J10 must be coming soon and there might be another strategic reason for its induction and I have not seen being discussed here. That is China - Pakistan intra operability. All Chinese air bases close to India are on a very high altitude level, they are all up in the mountains. Their aircrafts suffer from extreme stress to take off from those altitudes and cannot take off with their maximum load carrying capacity. Hence they are significantly under performing while facing IAF at the moment (who has an advantage of taking off from low altitude). But by selling J10s to Pakistan, China can reach an agreement with Pakistan to use some of its bases to respond to India (where technical infrastructure to maintain & support J10 operations exist). In that way in case of war against India, China can use PAF bases and solve its altitude problem. J10 induction and intra operability with China is in interest of both China & Pakistan as it will also have a force multiplier effect. India can't win a 2 front war, neither it can face full wrath of Chinese air force.
If taking off with full load at such heights is an issue, then shouldnt chinese jets take off from deep within Chinese mainland, get refueled mid air and approach sino-indian border?

Pakistan providing airbases would signal a joint Sino-Pak two front war? Pakistan wont risk it unless assistance in Kashmir takeover is being offered by China! Highly unlikely
 

Big_bud

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If taking off with full load at such heights is an issue, then shouldnt chinese jets take off from deep within Chinese mainland, get refueled mid air and approach sino-indian border?

Pakistan providing airbases would signal a joint Sino-Pak two front war? Pakistan wont risk it unless assistance in Kashmir takeover is being offered by China! Highly unlikely
I think it would have to do with Chinese response time and Indian detection time. The point has been presented by Abijit Iyer Mitra, not specific to J10. But Indians do consider there is a possibility of Chinese using PAF bases to their advantage.
 

iLION12345_1

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IMO unlikely ... if they deliver it soon, why 22? And by the way, who is he?
He is a Reporter for TRT and other outlets.

As for 22, I don’t know, my best guess is that it’s the first batch, a squadron plus a few training aircraft? Or maybe PAF gave them a date to deliver the first batch by and 22 is the amount they can produce by that date (considering the production only started in late 2021 it wouldn’t be entirely out of the question that China can only make 22 by then). However that’s just me speculating.
 

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