What's new

New fighter for PAF Doctrine?

m52k85

FULL MEMBER
May 24, 2013
645
0
632
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
I studied lots of Pak military funding in my days, Pak army do re route funds from there commercial enterprises but I trust my calculations BLK3 will be dead on arrival from a squad or two if J10C are indeed coming to PAF.
J10c by no means a cheap fighter even with 100% Chinese inputs.
They should cost Paf more than even new F16 versions. Jf17 and J10C do share common weapon plateforms but still not enough to reduce the overall cost of ownership.
Can you share some of your calculations with us?
 

Salza

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 20, 2014
7,639
-1
11,627
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
maaza nahi aya j10 ka sun kei...abhi bohut time hai...anyways this plane doesn't have an x factor which f16 has it
 

New Recruit

Jul 25, 2021
77
-5
95
Country
India
Location
India
Can you share some of your calculations with us?
Not sure that is much confidential data but pretty sure historical data is yet to be digitized.

Crips of whole yearly study was Pak military is the biggest congolomate in pakistan and keep on re investing in its corporate arms but good chunk of strategic acquisitions are also funded specially black programs which include nuclear,missile and so called non state actors.
 

The Eagle

SENIOR MODERATOR
Oct 15, 2015
22,197
174
41,921
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Not sure that is much confidential data but pretty sure historical data is yet to be digitized.

Crips of whole yearly study was Pak military is the biggest congolomate in pakistan and keep on re investing in its corporate arms but good chunk of strategic acquisitions are also funded specially black programs which include nuclear,missile and so called non state actors.
Someone like me is happy as how India reads us and found the data. Years ago on this very Forum, had the opportunity to update one of the members may be named some Mishra, as how the info flows through internet and how certain quarters will manage to share data as they want.

The info, which is supposed to be made public.
The info, which is deliberately fed to rivals assets.
The info, leaked and publicized but helped in to change program.
The info, that enemy must know And,
There's a large portion of info which doesn't exist.

Enjoy the show.
 

Trailer23

SENIOR MEMBER
Jun 2, 2012
3,908
109
11,787
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Arab Emirates
So, in last few pages, we have J-10C from China (East) and a Western 4.5+ Platform for PAF in near future. 🤔
Yes, apparently its confirmed and as a result there is major shortage of گلاب جامن & لڈو in Pakistan.
maaza nahi aya j10 ka sun kei...abhi bohut time hai...anyways this plane doesn't have an x factor which f16 has it
Bhai, at this point I wouldn't mind an FX with wings and SD-10's strapped to it.

Pickings a bit slim... [jo mil raha hai, chup/chap lay lo].

We don't have the likes of Lockheed Martin, Boeing, BAE, SAAB, Dassault etc. knocking on our doorsteps to buy their equipment.
 

m52k85

FULL MEMBER
May 24, 2013
645
0
632
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
Not sure that is much confidential data but pretty sure historical data is yet to be digitized.

Crips of whole yearly study was Pak military is the biggest congolomate in pakistan and keep on re investing in its corporate arms but good chunk of strategic acquisitions are also funded specially black programs which include nuclear,missile and so called non state actors.
Hmm, so it was not an open source analysis? In that case an open forum cant help you much.
 

The Eagle

SENIOR MODERATOR
Oct 15, 2015
22,197
174
41,921
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Yes, apparently its confirmed and as a result there is major shortage of گلاب جامن & لڈو in Pakistan.
On me anytime 😊
We don't have the likes of Lockheed Martin, Boeing, BAE, SAAB, Dassault etc. knocking on our doorsteps to buy their equipment.
By the way, what if I tell you few of them have been here. It's just our strategy to not to beat drums like our crying and whining neighbour running to countries to not to sell Pakistan as anything becomes a hard and long bamboo for India.
 

m52k85

FULL MEMBER
May 24, 2013
645
0
632
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
No, it isn’t.
Can you give us some examples? I was thinking along the lines of imported fighters like F-7s and F-16 to Pakistan, Rafale to India etc. Jf-17 doesnt count as there was an additional dimension of moving production to Pakistan.
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

SENIOR MEMBER
Aug 22, 2016
5,884
73
22,948
Country
Pakistan
Location
Canada
If history is to set the precedent for the future, then yes its a fair point.
That's usually the idea from a planning standpoint, but reality doesn't always play nice. The lack of funds or sanctions will scuttle those plans. However, if the PAF is buying J-10CEs, it's not intending to limit itself to 2 squadrons if it has the means to buy more.
 

Sine Nomine

ELITE MEMBER
Nov 19, 2014
10,040
23
12,661
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
That's usually the idea from a planning standpoint, but reality doesn't always play nice. The lack of funds or sanctions will scuttle those plans. However, if the PAF is buying J-10CEs, it's not intending to limit itself to 2 squadrons if it has the means to buy more.
In my opinion buying J-10 is worthless,It would have make sense if that was done in around 2010,we better try getting in J-31 program.
On top of that we should try designing a LO platform in medium weight slot having a single engine and which is manufactured using existing tech.
I fear that we are heading towards another 'lost decade'.
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

SENIOR MEMBER
Aug 22, 2016
5,884
73
22,948
Country
Pakistan
Location
Canada
In my opinion buying J-10 is worthless,It would have make sense if that was done in around 2010,we better try getting in J-31 program.
On top of that we should try designing a LO platform in medium weight slot having a single engine and which is manufactured using existing tech.
I fear that we are heading towards another 'lost decade'.
I would've liked that approach, but I can see where the PAF is coming from.

Basically, any NGFA investment would be a big risk and massive use of funds. You can't park all of your eggs in that one basket, no matter how good it sounds in theory. You need a "control" to fall back on in case the flagship program (NGFA) hits a snag, and it will hit a few snags.

So the question we have to ask is, "what is a good enough control?" Maybe the FC-31 might have been the ideal control, but it's not a factor (still in development) and will likely be costly. The JF-17 is available and is lower cost, but it may not be enough to handle the threats of the 2020s and early 2030s.

This basically leaves us with the J-10CE. From the PAF's standpoint, the J-10CE is probably good enough to support its needs for the 2020s/early 2030s, and it's available at an acceptable cost. So, if things go sideways with NGFA, the PAF could keep adding more J-10CEs without necessarily compromising the future NGFA procurement.

There might even be some other factors, such as the possibility of using the WS-10 in the TFX and building engine commonality between the two future mainstay fighters.

Moreover, Pakistan can only support the development (or co-development) of one fighter, but it needs both heavyweight and medium-weight jets. So, one of these must come off-the-shelf, and the J-10CE met the ASR for the near- and long-run.
 

Sine Nomine

ELITE MEMBER
Nov 19, 2014
10,040
23
12,661
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
This basically leaves us with the J-10CE. From the PAF's standpoint, the J-10CE is probably good enough to support its needs for the 2020s/early 2030s, and it's available at an acceptable cost.
In my opinion J-10 isn't going to bring anything new which JFT won't be able to bring,we can go for airframe changes in longer run instead of getting a new platform.

Basically, any NGFA investment would be a big risk and massive use of funds. You can't park all of your eggs in that one basket, no matter how good it sounds in theory. You need a "control" to fall back on in case the flagship program (NGFA) hits a snag, and it will hit a few snags.
We don't make turbofan engines,without own powerplant making a NGFA is useless exercise in my opinion,we would be able to make Avionics and airframe materials but powerplant?.
P.S:-What if organisations working on strategic projects are involved in for making a move into relam of powerplants?
@messiach

So the question we have to ask is, "what is a good enough control?" Maybe the FC-31 might have been the ideal control, but it's not a factor (still in development) and will likely be costly. The JF-17 is available and is lower cost, but it may not be enough to handle the threats of the 2020s and early 2030s.
We should jump into J-31 program,it's matter of national security.We can try funding this using chinese banks.Rember that we can't gamble on that.
Bharat sooner or later is going to opt F-35.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 2, Members: 0, Guests: 2)


Top Bottom