What's new

New fighter for PAF Doctrine?

Silicon0000

FULL MEMBER
Mar 1, 2015
871
0
1,240
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
I hope there is no J-10C induction in PAF in any number. I would rather us have 250 JF-17s over another 4th gen Chinese jet. Put the money that will be used to buy a new aircraft into AZM and JF-17 to improve it even further. There are a lot of things that can be added to the Thunder still. Spend that money towards R&D.

If there are any western aircraft coming, they will only be used ones. There are only two options, ie Eurofighter (less likely from UK) and Mirage 2000 (more likely in small numbers from Qatar and Egypt). I would have put used F-16s on here too however PAF seems to be headed away from US options so they might not even be looking to entertain those and waste time and effort.

💯% what I was thinking 😇
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

SENIOR MEMBER
Aug 22, 2016
5,903
73
23,051
Country
Pakistan
Location
Canada
Do you think they will get that many J-10C? Maybe there’s an angle to it I’m not seeing but I’ve been thinking they’ve got just a few squadrons on their mind, as in they’re not getting them to replace all the mirages/F7s.
The PAF never inducts a whole new fighter platform unless it intends to acquire 90-150 such examples. Bar the fighters we got on aid from the US, every jet we bought or wanted followed this rule:
  • Mirage III/5: ~90 in the 1970s
  • A-7: 110 (deal fell through)
  • F-16s: ~110 via Peace Gate I/II/III/IV
  • JF-17: 150
IMO if the J-10CE is coming, the PAF will procure at least 90 aircraft, but I think the PAF can stretch it to 150 as (1) we should expect delays in AZM, (2) new variants could offer much improved capabilities and (3) some will replace the older JF-17 Block-Is.
 

araz

PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Jun 14, 2006
8,501
72
14,141
One cat is black and one brown/white..... So it indicates one from west/Europe and other from east...... Right?
Bhai siah faam habasha say aatay hain. Brown to hum log hain. To matlab yeh hua kay JFT per rely karo kalay saab kay paas jub kuch hoga to khareed laingay.
A
 
Last edited:

iLION12345_1

FULL MEMBER
May 1, 2016
1,524
10
4,198
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
The PAF never inducts a whole new fighter platform unless it intends to acquire 90-150 such examples. Bar the fighters we got on aid from the US, every jet we bought or wanted followed this rule:
  • Mirage III/5: ~90 in the 1970s
  • A-7: 110 (deal fell through)
  • F-16s: ~110 via Peace Gate I/II/III/IV
  • JF-17: 150
IMO if the J-10CE is coming, the PAF will procure at least 90 aircraft, but I think the PAF can stretch it to 150 as (1) we should expect delays in AZM, (2) new variants could offer much improved capabilities and (3) some will replace the older JF-17 Block-Is.
I had it in mind more as a smaller stop gap until the PAF inducts 2 different fifth gens, but that does sound a lot more realistic and sustainable.
 

Blacklight

PROFESSIONAL
Apr 9, 2017
2,481
9
7,998
Country
Pakistan
Location
Ireland
I think the PAF views the JF-17 as basically a new-age F-7/MiG-21 (even though it can be much more if we had invested more in our development capacity earlier on). It's there to train new pilots and carry point-defense/short-range ops.

For offensive operations, the PAF probably wants to move to a mix of heavy- and medium-weight fighters. It appears that the PAF thinks its new medium fighter should be the J-10CE, while the heavy (deep-strike-focused) would be AZM.

IMO the PAF's fleet vision for 2047 may be:
  • 100 AZM (induction 2037-2047)
  • 150 J-10CE (induction 2022-2032)
  • 50 JF-17 Block-III
  • 26 JF-17B
  • 4~6 new tankers
IMO after Swift Retort, I think the PAF genuinely believes that a hard-hitting offensive capability (i.e., most of its fleet) is a must. They'll have a list of targets they need to hit within 18~24 hours, pray it works and stops India from fighting, or go atomic. The J-10CEs and AZMs would fly near or across the border and deploy SOWs en-masse.

My preference would've been to steer AZM towards a twin-engine medium-weight fighter tailored for RD-93MA (but we try to develop our own with Turkey and Ukraine). We think along the lines of one mainstay fighter plus UCAVs and loyal wingmen.

I think picking up the FC-31 and completing its development in Pakistan (independently of J-35) would've been good. Yes, high-risk, but not more so than what we're trying with AZM. Plus with China's lead work and support, we could potentially start the production process in 2030.

Bilal's 2047 fleet:
  • 280 AZM (twin-engine 24,000 kg)
  • ???? UCAVs (single-engine, using the same powerplant as AZM)
  • ???? UTAS (loyal wingman UAVs with a 3-4 kN powerplant built at home)
  • 4~6 A330s we mod with the UPAZ AAR pods with Ukraine
  • 4~6 new AEW&C using Erieye-ER and E190-E2
Well since it is "Bilal's Air Force", and not PAF, do add on:

Indigenous dual purpose long range AAM / A2G missiles
Hypersonic glide vehicles
Kamikaze Drones
S500 equivalent ABM system
X-Band long range GaN radars
High Altitude Long Endurance multi purpose drones
Laser weapons capability
 

JamD

FULL MEMBER
Mar 26, 2015
1,627
63
5,323
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
My preference would've been to steer AZM towards a twin-engine medium-weight fighter tailored for RD-93MA (but we try to develop our own with Turkey and Ukraine). We think along the lines of one mainstay fighter plus UCAVs and loyal wingmen.
At the very least the current design of Azm is designed for a twin AL31/WS10 class engine. I think this is a clear indication of what the PAF wants. Of course what the PAF gets will probably be different.
 

SABRE

FULL MEMBER
Apr 16, 2007
975
7
1,407
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
It lost out to the Rafale in Indias MMRCA competition on account of, presumably among other metrics, operational costs.
If memory serves me right, Rafale lost out to the aircraft that were selected for the final leg of the MMRCA competition. Whereas EFT remained in the competition. This was followed by a big uproar by the French and Rafale's elimination was subsequently identified as a bureaucratic error and was overturned. Rafale came back in and won the competition. And they lived happily ever after.
 
Last edited:

Metal 0-1

FULL MEMBER
Aug 14, 2016
1,524
7
1,752
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
@Zarvan ! @PanzerKiel did mentioned west but never mentioned which west how far we have to go towards West. Hear me out, If we travel to west not far away you have Iran it could be Iran's Qaher.

Now you have middle East in west too.
On the edge of Middle East and Europe you got Turkey i.e TFX, Hurjet

European countries are also in west it could be Italian Armachi MB-339, EF Typhoon, could be Gripen, If you want to travel more towards west you have USA. USA means F-16s.

Brazil is in South America it could be Super Tucano

If you circumnavigate, you are technically traveling towards west. So, You got China.

So the Eastern and Western jet is J-10C because you moved towards west technically speaking.

That's my Big Chimp Brain theory.

If you can ask Panzer bhai how far we have to travel in west most of the confusion will be solved.
 

HRK

PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Sep 24, 2010
12,600
99
32,703
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
If memory serves me right, Rafale lost out to the aircraft that were selected for the final leg of the MMRCA competition. Whereas EFT remained in the competition. This was followed a bug up roar by the French and Rafale's elimination was subsequently identified as a bureaucratic error and was overturned. Rafale came back in and won the competition. And they lived happily ever after.
Rafale was the runner-up but won the tender because it was comparatively less costly than the lifecycle cost quoted by Euro consortium
 

Huffal

FULL MEMBER
Dec 27, 2020
1,324
0
1,376
Country
United Kingdom
Location
United Kingdom
And you believe this manoeuvre is real?? Come on ... clearly faked!
...
@Zarvan ! @PanzerKiel did mentioned west but never mentioned which west how far we have to go towards West. Hear me out, If we travel to west not far away you have Iran it could be Iran's Qaher.

Now you have middle East in west too.
On the edge of Middle East and Europe you got Turkey i.e TFX, Hurjet

European countries are also in west it could be Italian Armachi MB-339, EF Typhoon, could be Gripen, If you want to travel more towards west you have USA. USA means F-16s.

Brazil is in South America it could be Super Tucano

If you circumnavigate, you are technically traveling towards west. So, You got China.

So the Eastern and Western jet is J-10C because you moved towards west technically speaking.

That's my Big Chimp Brain theory.

If you can ask Panzer bhai how far we have to travel in west most of the confusion will be solved.
Big thonk
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 2, Members: 0, Guests: 2)


Top Bottom