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New fighter for PAF Doctrine?

JamD

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I noticed that the JDAM-type weapons don't use terminal-stage seekers. As you said, the main point here is to control cost and deploy in numbers.

Once you talk about terminal-stage control, you get into more niche munitions -- like H-4, JSOW, etc. In this case, you're looking at both adding a terminal stage seeker and using different warhead types (like tandem, penetrator, or even sub-munition dispensers).

If anything, we can't mix the role of the H2/H4 with that of the IREK. The IREK is our JDAM-line. We will still need a true successor to the H2/H4 that carries the specific benefits of those SOWs to the future.

I guess the future direction would be a JSOW-type weapon.
A question that I can ask is, is it worth maintaining that capability?

Is it worth having a dedicated jet (a Mirage or a future heavy) carrying a single weapon, or can I get the job done by launching 4 REK-III's from 2 JF-17s? The PAF might be asking what I just asked.

The capability gap that we have is hitting a large number of targets at 300-400 km to hit IAF bases. If wishes were horses I'd want a REK-IV with a 350 km range that is only marginally more expensive and heavier than the REK-III. We can't afford to launch hundreds of Ra'ads at India, we are not the USA.
 

Deino

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I know everybody will hate me again, but can we come back to the topic?!! :undecided:
Pages of different Chinese, Pakistani or whatever guided bombs is not really specific to "New fighter for PAF doctrine"! :fie:
 

JamD

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I know everybody will hate me again, but can we come back to the topic?!! :undecided:
Pages of different Chinese, Pakistani or whatever guided bombs is not really specific to "New fighter for PAF doctrine"! :fie:
Haha sorry you are absolutely right. We will move our discussion to appropriate threads :)
 

HRK

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The capability gap that we have is hitting a large number of targets at 300-400 km to hit IAF bases. If wishes were horses I'd want a REK-IV with a 350 km range that is only marginally more expensive and heavier than the REK-III. We can't afford to launch hundreds of Ra'ads at India, we are not the USA.
Dardo-II type simple SOW could e an answer to our need
0-dardo.jpg
4F36F4138.jpg


Fuselage/Air frame and Engine
10-dardo[ec].jpg


Specifications(Rang=200 km)
14-dardo.jpg


DARDO-II[0-E].jpg



Pages of different Chinese, Pakistani or whatever guided bombs is not really specific to "New fighter for PAF doctrine"! :fie:
Deino dear any new platform has to bring some capabilities to suit our requirement, so discussing the platform without discussing weapon package is not logical hope you would understand
 

SQ8

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I know everybody will hate me again, but can we come back to the topic?!! :undecided:
Pages of different Chinese, Pakistani or whatever guided bombs is not really specific to "New fighter for PAF doctrine"! :fie:
I think everyone got bored discussing hot air so now it’s evolving to something else. Like a metamorphosis of clubhouse meetings on best credit card offers from June 2020 where everyone wants a say even though we’re in 2021.
 

The Eagle

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Sir, Do you think that these platforms will give PAF an edge over Rafale until 5 generation arrives in the subcontinent?
Brother, if it was me, I will put it in simple words that the notion being created by Indian flooding internet that Pakistan will have to add another platform purely to counter Rafale, is wrong.

Rafale is not the issue at whole but our ageing fleet, doctrine requirements and transition towards next generation operating Force. As said, we maintain first see and first shoot capability whether India brings Rafale or anything else in inventory.

Any additional platform is purely based upon our requirements and doctrine. Rafale provided us yet another opportunity to upgrade and we will still remain ahead in quality.
 

Incog_nito

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I noticed that the JDAM-type weapons don't use terminal-stage seekers. As you said, the main point here is to control cost and deploy in numbers.

Once you talk about terminal-stage control, you get into more niche munitions -- like H-4, JSOW, etc. In this case, you're looking at both adding a terminal stage seeker and using different warhead types (like tandem, penetrator, or even sub-munition dispensers).

If anything, we can't mix the role of the H2/H4 with that of the IREK. The IREK is our JDAM-line. We will still need a true successor to the H2/H4 that carries the specific benefits of those SOWs to the future.

I guess the future direction would be a JSOW-type weapon.
What about the idea of getting some EF-2000s from Austria?

I'm sure that if a finance option was tried out from the Middle East then buying 18 ex-Austrian EF-2000s and some additional 42 EF-2000s from Trench 4 can be bought to support the replacement of Mirages and adding capability in PAF.
That means there's a possibility of twin engine from Chinese side as well?
J-31/J-35s are coming to PAF as soon as they gets into production.
 

Bilal.

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Is there a way to add a terminal control element (like H4) to the IREK/IREK-III-series? E.g., an IIR seeker to tighten the CEP, or an EO/TV with a data-link-based WSO operator? @JamD
I noticed that the JDAM-type weapons don't use terminal-stage seekers. As you said, the main point here is to control cost and deploy in numbers.

Once you talk about terminal-stage control, you get into more niche munitions -- like H-4, JSOW, etc. In this case, you're looking at both adding a terminal stage seeker and using different warhead types (like tandem, penetrator, or even sub-munition dispensers).

If anything, we can't mix the role of the H2/H4 with that of the IREK. The IREK is our JDAM-line. We will still need a true successor to the H2/H4 that carries the specific benefits of those SOWs to the future.

I guess the future direction would be a JSOW-type weapon.
I don’t see a reason why not. We have UAE’s Al Tariq that offers basically the same solution. The glide precision guided kit for MK-series with a range of 120-140Km with optional IIR or SAL seeker for terminal phase.
 

mingle

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What about the idea of getting some EF-2000s from Austria?

I'm sure that if a finance option was tried out from the Middle East then buying 18 ex-Austrian EF-2000s and some additional 42 EF-2000s from Trench 4 can be bought to support the replacement of Mirages and adding capability in PAF.

J-31/J-35s are coming to PAF as soon as they gets into production.
EF for PAF is non starter PAF will try to get more F16s along current fleet upgrades to V with blk3 on Horizon maybe J10CE induct as well Mirages old frames will retire with Blk3 and F16s induction along J10CE but Rose family will stay in inventory for 10yrs but eventually all will go with more J10CE and blk3.
 

NA71

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EF for PAF is non starter PAF will try to get more F16s along current fleet upgrades to V with blk3 on Horizon maybe J10CE induct as well Mirages old frames will retire with Blk3 and F16s induction along J10CE but Rose family will stay in inventory for 10yrs but eventually all will go with more J10CE and blk3.
The US-PAK relationship are getting on high waves every passing day. CIA chief visited Islamabad on a brief unannounced trip to get permission for Shamsi AB... he was politely told "NO".


Pakistan could bargain for what we were discussing but it seems that we have had enough from USA, and military leadership is not willing to give any thing which can be used against Taleban in Afghanistan.

The only possible induction will be J10C ...and another big bird may be added later....though in limited no.
 

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