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New fighter for PAF Doctrine?

Blacklight

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Sir, why is the J-10 a Mirage and Jf17 B3 rolled into one?

Where does it excel? Low altitude penetration, super cruise, AA payload, radar detection range etc?

Open source figures put the range and payload of J10 in the same category of Jf17.

Thanks
Please feel free to study this thread:
 

ziaulislam

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From last few months we are hearing talk of J 11/16.

While it looked the least expected option keeping in view copyright constraint on China. But the theory going round is that Russian wants to sell SU 35 but due to india pressure might settle for allowing China to sell J 16.

If this hypothesis is correct than it could be most practical option. the point being buying J 10 won't give any additional capabilities. its at most is going to be equal to a next block of F 16. essentially a medium size fighter.

So if you are going to buy some thing new and developing a new infrastructure. Than why not get some thing that gives you a new capabilities.
F16b70 is actually 25% bigger thn j10
Similarly j10 is 30% bigger then block 3
 

Blacklight

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Never ever given the current political situation. Get the J-10C or leave it. There is NO other option for Pakistan at the moment.
Sir, If I may inquire, Have you arrived at this conclusion based on your talks with President Xi, Gen.N.Raza, Gen Bajwa, or CAS Sidhu? Which one of these Gents was it?

You are inadvertently saying "Pakistan is isolated", the Hanumans that used to propagate this nonsense, are so deep in their shit, that they cant even breathe.
 
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Scorpiooo

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J10 is good option, and decision will be by PAF on the basics of what favour Pakistan defense interests.
personal preference of some PDF members with thanders make no importance to them at all. so let them be happy in there own dream world by considering J10 and thanders equalivant ...

We are all proud of our thanders and there continues improvements in form of block and variants, but we have to realize in which role and category they were developed.. they are best in there own category and role..
 

Irfan Baloch

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Er his figure is from what the PAF has committed to. They have only ordered 30 aircraft. The 2020 budget was $45bn. The Defense budget for the same year was $7.85bn. Please enlighten us where you have pulled YOUR figures from for 120 block 3s.
60% of budget doesn't go to defense. where did you get that number from?
its a fallacy and a propaganda. the biggest chunk goes to debt servicing. pensions and subsidies. defense is roughly 19% of the total budget expenditure for the year.(Rs 1.05Tr out of Rs 5.5 Tr expenditure budget 201-2022)

as for preference of funds allocation it is down to the military planners to reassess how the defense spending can be best prioritized, I do support the PAF preference but army might need convincing. they believe its an infantry man that defends, takes and holds a place. hence so many infantry corps. maybe a bigger aviation branch within army will relieve PAF from ground support role and let army decide how to employ its guships and attack aircrafts to support its armor and infantry formations or loiter where it has ground assets and if needed provide CAS within Pakistan borders while PAF keeps a bigger strategic envelop over it within and beyond the borders.
 

Blacklight

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60% of budget doesn't go to defense. where did you get that number from?
its a fallacy and a propaganda. the biggest chunk goes to debt servicing. pensions and subsidies. defense is roughly 19% of the total budget expenditure for the year.(Rs 1.05Tr out of Rs 5.5 Tr expenditure budget 201-2022)

as for preference of funds allocation it is down to the military planners to reassess how the defense spending can be best prioritized, I do support the PAF preference but army might need convincing. they believe its an infantry man that defends, takes and holds a place. hence so many infantry corps. maybe a bigger aviation branch within army will relieve PAF from ground support role and let army decide how to employ its guships and attack aircrafts to support its armor and infantry formations or loiter where it has ground assets and if needed provide CAS within Pakistan borders while PAF keeps a bigger strategic envelop over it within and beyond the borders.
The mistrust between forces is an issue that needs to be reconciled ASAP. Hopefully, with the easing of financial constrains we will see better cohesion.
 

TNT

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Any new fighter would be a welcome sign. We need to enhance our capabilities, be it marginal. Also people need to realize that the US is now a strategic partner of india against china, while Pakistan is seen as iron brother of china. There is talk of war in coming 5 to 10 years and every party is preparing for it. In this situation, who would be naive enough to think the US will allow top line weapons for Pakistan, a close chinese ally. Even if US offers weapons, we should not buy because in time of war, they can withhold spares and make those weapons useless. Isnt the writing on the wall clear enough??
 

LeGenD

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Not an offence punch compared to the F16? you gotta be joking me. Our F16s are severely limited due to their incapability to be refueled with our current aerial tankers. The J10 would not have that disability. Furthermore the J10 could very easily be equipped with the Raad cruise missile/ H2/H4 glide bombs, and other indiginous weapons we produce in the future. Something once again we havnt been able to do with the F16s to do this. Lastly to even compare there electronics would be a joke. The J10 is atleast 2 decades ahead in AESA RADAR, EW SUITE, Pilot situational awareness, etc... The US navy itself considered the J10A a major threat to its latest Super Hornet and your here telling me F16mlus are better than the J10C :D
Misconceptions in this post.

F-16 Block 52+ have following technologies:

1. AN/APG-68(V)9 radar system



AN/APG-68(V)9 is the best radar system outside AESA options for F-16 variants (Block 60 and above):


LINK: http://fifthsun5.egloos.com/2900088

2. AN/ALQ-211 AIDEWS (with DRFM and SIRFC)
Related information in here.

3. Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS)
It provides high off-boresight weapons engagement capabilities among others benefits.

4. Secure communication technologies
AN/ARC-238 SINCGARS radios with HAVE QUICK I/II
MIDS-LVT Link 16
GPS

5. Conformal Fuel Tanks (to enhance range and reach)



There are different types of sophisticated pods in use as well. You can see one in the image above.

In case of military operations, F-16 Block 52+ will take cues from sophisticated AEW&C aircraft to partake in aerial engagements and deliver results in potential BVR engagements.

F-16 Block 52+ is also equipped with F100-PW-229 EEP engine which enable excellent kinematics and the jet fighter does not loose energy in case of prolonged battle-oriented maneuvers.

Payload capacity = very good
RCS = small

- - -

Even F-16 MLU (Block 40) were sufficient to counter Su-30 MKI of IAF which were armed with R77 munitions in Operation Swift Retort. I recall some conversations on PDF in which I pointed out that F-16 Block 52+ of PAF is more than capable of handling Su-30 MKI and a number of other Flanker configurations around the world but Indian fanboys were convinced otherwise. Now many are scratching their heads.

So hear me again. J-10C have its MERITS (sophisticated avionics and sensor systems) and limitations. It is not some kind of wonder weapon. Hype-driven comparisons of J-10 variants with the likes of F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet Block 2 (and above) are PREMATURE. J-10A is not even close. And what exactly you know about J-10C in personal capacity?

True heavyweight champions of PLAAF are J-16 variants and J-20 variants respectively. Remainder are force-multiplier options with distinct specializations in large part. PLAAF have SIMULATED strikes over Taiwan in 2020; have a look at the composition of the strike formation. Food for thought for you.
 

Deino

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Sir, If I may inquire, Have you arrived at this conclusion based on your talks with President Xi, Gen.N.Raza, Gen Bajwa, or CAS Sidhu? Which one of these Gents was it?

You are inadvertently saying "Pakistan is isolated", the Hanumans that used to propagate this nonsense, are so deep in their shit, that they cant even breathe.

Simply logic and not wishful thinking which blinds or even made some guys delusional here since years. In fact it is the same simple logic that tells me that the German Luftwaffe will barely be taken seriously within the next years.

Or, asked in return. Please explain why the US should deliver Block 70 F-16s, why the Chinese against all contractual obligations shall deliver any of their Flankers ... who in Pakistan should pay fur such wet-dreams like any Russian fighters or why do you think there is a chance for any of the mentioned other Western types?

IMO there is none, not a single reason regardless whatever you hope or even pray: IMO there is only the Chinese option, if you like this or not.
 

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